Pound has dropped in value

Right, I can see that being on the application form...... (secret ballot so impossible to implement).

 

I think the SNP would be wise to see how Brexit plays out before pushing for another referendum, the BBC is still trying to push the agenda that it's a disaster for the UK and the general public believes them as if we're waiting for some bomb to drop that probably never will. Wouldn't surprise me to see France vote to leave if given the chance, as well as the Netherlands and Denmark. If that happens then you haven't got a European Union, you've got Germany propping up a load of failed economies, why would Scotland want to join that?

 

To be honest I don't even know what the 'middle class' is, I'd hate to be described as 'middle class' but then again I think I might be more middle class than people who say they are middle class.

 

Good points mate.

BTW I still have my doubts that article 50 will actually be triggered. I get the feeling that somehow a get out of triggering it will be found. Leaving the EU as big a risk as Scotland leaving the UK.

 

Nope, quite sure. You Gov poll. Here you go.

http://uk.businessinsider.com/yougo...ont-want-a-second-referendum-2016-9?r=US&IR=T

or right here, in the Glasgow Evening Times

http://www.eveningtimes.co.uk/news/...s_opposed_to_another_independence_referendum/

That's a subjective point of view based on your political persuasions - whilst it is a perfectly valid point of view to take, you don't back it up with anything - it is just a soundbite. However, the non debateable fact is that NS's economic vision for an independent future was based to a massive degree on the revenue that would be generated for Scotland by the North Sea Oilfields, and that has literally fallen off a cliff since the referendum, meaning that you would have had to find that revenue from elsewhere post independence and not blame it on Downing Street, otherwise your public services would be decimated.

This article quoting an economist from nearly 2 years ago lays out the devastation that would have been caused by the price of Oil had independence gone ahead, and that was written nearly 2 years ago, just after the referendum, when the price was $65 dollars a barrel.

http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/oil-prices-plummet-leading-academic-4800452

Alex Salmond's economic plans were based on a "prudent estimate" that it would be no lower than $113 a barrel. Wow. Today, nearly 2 years later, you would have been independent by now, and the price today is $50 a barrel. Ouch.

I admire your desire to go it alone, but the economics just don't stack up and you would have been hurting badly by now if you had gone. If the referendum were held again, the better together campaign need only focus on this one fact and people will run for the hills. It just won't happen I am afraid.

 

it was the people of areas like the dearne valley that voted out,there was a lot more to voting out than supporting the thames valley.

 

Thanks for the info mate. Not what I want to read obviously. I honestly did not remember seeing the poll results and I must admit it is for me worrying reading. Although I'm sure Nicola and her advisors also have knowledge of this and other such stats and yet they continue to play the Inde card. I'd have thought if things were not looking to good for them they would be lying a bit low and yet they keep the iron hot. But as has been said by another poster maybe best wait and see how Brexit turns out.
But thanks again for digging out the information mate.

 

No problem mate - it didn't take too much digging, just a quick google - it was only a couple of weeks ago I remember reading it.

I am not sure what is in the news up there but from down here it does seem as though NS has gone to ground a bit - not heard anything from her for quite a while.

You definitely need to wait for the outcome of Brexit, both to see how that goes, and to see if the oil price can recover or whether it has found its new level. Nicola can't even contemplate another referendum whilst the price of oil is less than half of what it was at the time of the last one, but maybe in time it may go back to previous levels - who knows. My understanding is that the price plummeted for a number of reasons but largely because OPEC enforced a price drop to hurt the USA and put a dagger into its expanding shale gas revenue returns, to try to kill off the market for it. (A cartel operating like a bully - who would have thunk it). However, you would imagine that OPEC can't deliberately halve its members income for ever - although many of them, like Saudi Arabia, have vast reserves of cash to see it through for a long long time. But given how the last 2 years have played out, I would be very loathe, if I were a Scot with a vote, to base my countries future fortunes on the price of a commodity that is controlled by a cartel that we don't belong to and can't influence.
Up to you though - are you a gambler?!

 

Maybe voting to remain and being shafted by a Tory Govt, seeing the NHS being dismantled daily, having Trident on my doorstep and living in a war mongering country would be as big a gamble.

 

which labour MP

 

https://ig.ft.com/sites/brexit-voices/media/brexit-shorthand---charts-1_1.png

 

Those who have benefitted greatest from a Tory government voted to remain, those who have been treated worst by a Tory government voted to leave.

People voted to leave Europe based on how the UK government treated them. Basically they blamed the wrong people for their problems and the fault of that lies squarely with labour who did an absolutely appalling job of highlighting who was really to blame for the mess places like Barnsley are in and for failing to highlight the economic benefits to Barnsley of being in the EU.

All they needed to do was publish a flyer listing the hundreds of projects in Barnsley bankrolled by the EU and highlight all the cutbacks made in the north by the Tory government whilst allowing the south to continue without the cutbacks. They headline f the flyer would be something like '2000 projects funded by EU money. Do you trust a conservative government to spend money in Barnsley? I don't. Vote remain to keep power out of David Cameron's hands'.

THAT would have got voters to vote remain, instead what did we get? Well what I got was a bland dull leaflet shoved through the letterbox the day after I voted.

 

I find your point of view a bit hard to believe. Are you suggesting that us Scots have been treated well by those Tory parasites. Doubt many in Barnsley think the maggots have treated them well.

Maybe a wee bit off the mark there mate.

 

Just one poll and not really overwhelming is it. A lot of the other groups that are pro-remain tend to be those just making their way in the world, everyone under 30 seems to be inherently socialist anyway so wouldn't expect them to vote any other way.

 

Oops, wrong way round. Reverse the remain and exit

 

Just posted it because I thought it was of interest to the discussion

 

It is mate.

 

Cos labour government did a sterling job didn't they?

 

Gordon Brown

 

OK please clarify.