'Me too' and other bandwagons of the professionally offended brigade..

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Tekkytyke, Jan 12, 2018.

  1. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    How can you compare these allegations to the Salem witch hunts ?
    There definitely were no witches so are you saying there’s no victims .
    There’s an element of the victims shouldn’t be seen or heard in your text imo
     
  2. Winker

    Winker Well-Known Member

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    Wot the **** Erudite, i always thought an Erudite was someone who was always willing, wanting attention usually found hanging art at the library, believe wars are fought without any understanding Educated moron or at least believe they are.
     
  3. Redstone

    Redstone Well-Known Member

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    Gabriel? Having a storming season shame he got injured.
     
  4. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

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    Try reading the OP properly and dispassionately and don't jump to conclusions. There was NO element of victims not being seen or heard.

    Of course witches were not real and Abuse victims are. The parallel made between Salem Witch hunts, McCarthyism and the current situation is clear in that guilt is assumed by many in each case as soon as an accusations is made.
    Worse still is the instant punishment and destruction of the accused's livelihood and reputation before any fair trial. takes place. Of course, this abuse has existed for decades. Of course most of the allegations, particularly where multiple unconnected witnesses make similar allegations against a particular person, can be and are substantiated. Weinstein is a clear example of that.
    The point was, that a kind of hysteria (particularly the media) takes over and the truth often becomes clouded. Rather like asylum seekers and benefits claimants, the overwhelming majority are genuine cases but where fraudulent claims and accusations exist it does make it difficult to separate fact from fiction. II was simply highlighting that it is naive to believe that ALL those coming forward are genuine victims especially in a society where litigation involving substantial amounts of money are sometimes involved.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  5. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

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    ???
    Erudite "having or showing great knowledge or learning.
    "Ken could turn any conversation into an erudite discussion"
    synonyms: learned, scholarly, well educated, knowledgeable, well read, widely read, well versed, well informed, lettered, cultured, cultivated, civilized, intellectual;"
     
  6. Exi

    Exile Well-Known Member

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    Surely the issue of most importance right now is that we're still five goalies light - need to get one in every four and three quarter days from hereon in.
     
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  7. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

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    Nah ! We may get a couple of BOGOFs that gives us 9 days for each deal surely ,-)
     
  8. shed131

    shed131 Well-Known Member

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    Pop corn anybody...lol
     
  9. JamDrop

    JamDrop Well-Known Member

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    People at work were having this discussion today, with my (female) manager saying she thought it would stifle flirting in future and that women should just ignore the 'tamer' stuff (bum grabbing etc.) or hit the guy and tell him to stop. She then said that that was how she had met her husband - he had grabbed her bum in a club.

    I find myself really torn on that side of things in terms of past 'tame' offences. I sometimes feel that the context of the time should be taken into account and sort of understand the argument that it was more accepted then so dragging it back up now is a bit unfair. However, as I completely believe that those things should be cracked down on now, I wonder why I think things in the past should be ignored. It never was acceptable, really, it's just that no-one said anything for a variety of reasons.

    Take, for example, when I was working in Tenerife during the summer whilst at uni. A guy who I worked with grabbed my top and bra and pulled them both down, exposing my breasts in front of everyone. Obviously, I was fuming, shouted at him and told my manager who laughed. When he finally understood that I was actually angry about it, he said 'stop being a pillock' to the guy and that was that. If I'd have pushed it further I would definitely have been seen as the unreasonable 'can't take a joke' one. Before someone says that I should have hit him, he had quite an anger problem and was incredibly intimidating and would have hit me back, of that I have no doubt. Back then, I felt powerless to do anything and so let it drop. Also, as I have said in a previous thread, the guys there took to slapping my arse many times each night and high fiving each other as a joke. As I needed the job to pay for my food and accommodation I didn't have a choice but to just put up with these things, especially as everyone knew everyone there and there was no way I'd get a job at any of the other bars if I got a bad word from anyone. If these #metoo campaigns give women the feeling that they can do something about it, and it makes men think twice before touching someone inappropriately, then I'm all for it.
     
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  10. Sta

    Stahlrost Well-Known Member

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    Bloody hell, embarrassed to be a man after reading that. Unbelievable level of sexual abuse, and I don't know why but I feel I need to apologise on behalf of men to you and other women who have suffered. Absolutely gobsmacked at your story.
     
  11. JamDrop

    JamDrop Well-Known Member

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    It's obviously not all men (there's another popular hashtag) and I don't feel scarred for life by it or want any sympathy for something that happened 9 years ago but it's just another anecdote to add to the list of stuff that women experience. I've got tons more but the real point is that other women do too but as it is brushed under the carpet people really don't realise the extent it happens. They honestly think women are just complaining about their knee being touched once or something but it's about the bigger picture and the sheer extent that it happens which I believe men honestly can't grasp - through no fault of their own, how could they if no-one ever talked about it? The best thing about the #metoo campaign is that it spreads awareness. No-one on here knew that had happened to me, none of my friends know either (just all the people who were milling about outside the club at the time it happened and saw!!) but if people don't know, how can they do anything to stop it?
     
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  12. Sta

    Stahlrost Well-Known Member

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    It certainly does spread awareness, and speaking as a man (albeit a 92 year old one!) it does help to make me realise that there are limits on behaviour beyond which we should not go, and to realise where those limits are. I've often thought about my habit of grabbing people near to me at matches and hugging them when we score, but I've decided that in the context that is OK and indeed lots of others do exactly the same thing (although sadly not that often recently). However, it's not for me to decide, it's for the recipient of course, but up to now nobody has complained!!!

    I think in time the world will be a better place for the #metoo campaign, even though there will always be some who (in my opinion) overreact. It's better to overreact than to feel you have to accept unpleasant verbal or physical advances.
     
  13. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

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    Err ... in spite of being told on here by someone that I am 'not a nice person' I have to disagree with your employers views n what is "tame stuff"
    Italians may have had a reputation for ..err.. 'bum pinching' but the reaction from the Italian feisty ladies suggests they gave as good as they got.
    Grabbing bums or any unwanted direct physical contact with strangers is definitely out of bounds and repeatedly slapping bums is surely the very definition of sexual harassment. It is a far cry from the adolescent fumblings on the back row of the cinema hat took place on many a first date in the 70's which usually resulted in a slap accompanied by a gerroff! That can be seen as mildly amusing. What you experienced is nothing of the sort.
    I agree that times have changed along with attitudes and they needed to . I just hope that it doen't go too far and as Catherine Deneueve said it doesn't lead to paranoia when a man is trying to attract a woman by flirting and misreading any signals-
     
  14. Terry Nutkins

    Terry Nutkins Well-Known Member

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    Why should anybody have to give someone a good slap and a loud get off?

    The fact that underpins all of this current attention is that some men (not all I might add) still see themselves as more powerful, and more deserving of better jobs and better pay. They then use this power to degrade and utilise to their own benefit against women.

    I've seen it with my own eyes in the workplace, I find it repulsive. I make sure that under my remit every person, irrespective of gender, race or sexuality gets equal pay, equal benefits and equal rights. Anybody that even questions, the current 'runaway train' obviously hasn't tried to walk in the shoes of the people it has affected.

    If you think it is a witch hunt against Weinstein then you need to get your head read. The man was a power mad sex fiend. He was able to do it because he was a rich and powerful man, working in a closed club for men only. They would make it clear that if anybody stood up to their behaviour then then their careers would be over. The only thing that I am angry about is all those people who stood up to applaud the great speech by Oprah last week (both Men and Women) knew about it and did nothing. This should have been stopped decades ago, and I can't believe that has only just been addressed.
     
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  15. BarTyke

    BarTyke Well-Known Member

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    I know what you are getting at and am becoming increasingly bored with watching Hollywood actresses wringing their hands at the endless award shows. Don’t know if you caught Catherine Deneuve on the point this week but I thought she and the 100 signatories to her letter got it spot on. Far less puritanical and refreshingly French about the whole thing.
     
  16. JamDrop

    JamDrop Well-Known Member

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    I can't seem to find the whole thing but I did come across this quote: “Men have been punished summarily, forced out of their jobs when all they did was touch someone’s knee or try to steal a kiss.” It can never be acceptable for someone to do this at work, especially from someone in a position of seniority. Touching someone's knee can very easily be seen as a threat from a woman's point of view and she certainly shouldn't have to be dodging kisses at work. I didn't want to make a fuss because I didn't want to lose my summer job, there's no way women would dare risk their entire career, either by speaking out or by refusing advances too harshly (or at all in some cases), especially when there's people like Catherine openly siding with the man doing it.

    Imagine a situation where you know you have to wear short skirts and high heels for any chance of a promotion or even getting hired in the first place. When you are at work, your horrible sleazy manager keeps putting their hand on your knee and leaning in to kiss you whilst making disgusting, perverted remarks. You can't say anything because you don't want to risk your job by making them angry, you certainly can't push them away or hit them as you know that they can overpower you easily so turning this into a physical confrontation is the last thing you want. You need to tread a delicate line between smiling and looking flattered whilst at the same time not too encouraging. You may be thinking now that you would just look for a new job if the manager is so horrible, but there you would be falling into the mistake of thinking that this is a one-off, unique situation - it's not. You are also keenly aware that your manager is able to ensure you never get another job in that particular industry again if you spurn their advances.

    This is why it is so unfair and cannot ever be allowed in a work environment. It's not as easy as thinking that you can just tell them to stop, the implications of doing so are huge and simply not an option for many women.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
  17. Marc

    Marc Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    reply of the year
     
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  18. manxtyke

    manxtyke Well-Known Member

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    Oy gior when I was a kid I always wanted Jim to fix it for me and I had a poster of my fav popstar on the wall, “ you didn’t like my hair , the clothes I used wear” Gazza
     
  19. tobyornottoby

    tobyornottoby Well-Known Member

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    All the stuff that you speak of is something that I have never seen in 35 years of working in an office.

    It's almost suggesting a caricature of a Jimmy Saville (yep) type exists in each working environment. I don't believe they do. Or are we just imagining a situation?

    However if "all they did was ......steal a kiss" is a genuine quote from the 100 mesdames, then I must admit that's equally as ridiculous. Any bloke who even thinks along those lines at work needs a bromide bath before a p60.
     
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  20. PLOBBY

    PLOBBY Well-Known Member

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    Please dont apologise for all men thats just not right . I, and im sure plenty of other blokes have never slapped or pinched a woman's arse that's just plain cringy amongst all the other weird stuff . If a bloke thinks he can pull a girl by doing this stuff he needs help . We're not all the same . Don't label us all .
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2018
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