Messi & Argentina

Argentina are a shambles, used 45 different players in qualifying and had 3 different coach's. He had no idea what formation to play changing it and the personnel constantly.
They have some great attacking options but seem to have no idea how to make a team out if them. Messi dragged Argentina to the world cup. The tournament itself seems a step too far.

 

I'd always said (when we were in the championship) Ronaldo would win us the Championship on his own, we'd be in a relegation battle with Messi. He needs the support system of a team of extremely highly skilled players around him and a formation to flatter him.

 

Break down those goals into who they're against Honduras, Jamaica, Panama, Haiti etc etc some of the teams in la copa America are shocking. 4 goals in the last world cup for a team that went to the final? Less than Muller of Germany who hardly did 90 mins and the same as a retiring Robin Van Persie.

 

Whether we like him or not, Ronaldo is superb and he shows that Portugal can win things despite only being a one man team. and Ive heard Jose Morais is the leader of his fan club lol.
The Argies were very lucky to qualify because of Messi's hat trick in the final group game, and their luck has ran out it seems. And isn't it ace to see the fat cheat Diego nogo roaring his eyes out.

 

21 in World Cup Qualification matches - equal with Suarez as most ever in CONMEBOL.
He has scored most goals against Brazil, Uruguay, Paraguay, Ecuador and Venezuela - with 4 each. With the exception of Ecuador (60th), the rest are ranked in the top 35 in the world and 5 other CONMEBOL teams are in the top-20 in the World (Brazil, Chile, Peru, Uruguay and Colombia).

383 in 418 for Barcelona that has contained Neymar, Suarez and other top forwards.

A very good player on his day, but even the best player cannot win a tournament by himself.

 

He played a big part in dragging them to the 2014 final & if it wasn’t for a truly incredible performance they wouldn’t even be at this tournament.

If anyone thinks he’s over rated & all that they’re watching the wrong sport

 

That was my post. My point was really that Messi does not perform to anywhere near the same level for Argentina that he does for Barcelona. Even during the last world cup I don't think he was as good as the player he is for Barca despite him getting the player of the tournament and despite Argentina getting to the final.

Rodriguez was far and away the best player at the 2014 world cup in my opinion.

Messi is without a doubt a world class player, a genius, but he doesn't have the same influence for Argentina. I know that he has better players around him at Barcelona but Maradona had a lot more influence over the team, even when Argentina were poor.

 

‘I never watch Messi all season tearing apart teams in La Liga & teams in the champions league but I’m just going to judge him on this tournament & pretend he’s **** for Argentina even though he dragged them to the last World Cup final & if it wasn’t for him they wouldn’t have even got to this tournament’

That sums up a lot on here.

Why does everyone have to have an opinion on everything? Just be honest. Just say ‘I don’t watch enough of them to judge’.

I see threads linking us to players I’ve never heard of or I’ve never seen play so I don’t comment because I don’t know anything about them & I’ll only make myself look daft, same with posts about Cricket.

If you don’t watch any La Liga or Champions League then you haven’t got a clue about Messi or Ronaldo, I bet most of you commenting don’t even know that Ronaldo was dreadful before November & that during the first 3 months of the season Messi’s performances practically won Barca the league by Christmas in a season where many experts said they wouldn’t have a chance of beating Real with Xavi long gone, Iniesta in decline & Dembele injured long term.

This ‘brilliant Barca team’ is the worst they’ve had in 15 years yet Messi’s brilliance has played a huge part in them winning the league against a side with Ronaldo, Benzema, Modric, Kroos, Marcelo, Ramos etc in their prime & winning the champions league.

It’s Ronaldo who’s in a better club side & it’s Ronaldo who’s in a better in an international side. Just because Argentina have a couple of decent attacking players doesn’t mean they’ve got a better team, look at their keepers, defenders & midfielders

 

He was still top 3 or 4. Up there with James, Kroos & his ken team mate Mascherano. Either way he still had a great tournament

 

Ronaldo can.

Top 35 in the world? So against some proper ***** teams then. With the exception of the obvious two Brazil & Argentina the rest of South American football is poor. The four teams you name there after Brazil prove it, some South American teams had a very one off World Cup in 2014 where some of the teams surprised a lot of people but it was only because they were in their own back yard. Be interesting how many make the quarters this time around.

 

The Barca team got 17 more points over the Real team featuring Ronaldo, Benzema, Modric and Bale, who could only finish in 3rd.

 

He can’t. He certainly didn’t in 2016 if that’s what you’re referring to. They only fluked their way through the group as a best 3rd place finisher, sat relying on other teams results. They didn’t win a game in the worst group in the competition.

He wasn’t even on the pitch when they won the final.

I don’t get how a lot of people’s decision making on Messi - Ronaldo comes down to an Argentine striker missing a sitter in the 2014 final & a Portuguese striker scoring from outside the box in the 2016 final. It makes no sense

 

Chile are ranked 9th, Peru are ranked 11th. Uruguay 14th. For comparison, Spain are ranked 10th and England/Denmark joint 12th (Peru do have the advantage of altitude at home).
Colombia are 16th. That's between Mexico and Netherlands.
Paraguay (32) and Venezuela (33) are just above Romania and Ireland.

Don't get me wrong. I'm not suddenly endorsing these rankings, but it is the official system for comparing international teams

 

I miss the James Rodriquez from the last World Cup. He was the stand out player by a long way. Lit it up for me.

 

Ronaldo did two years ago and if he does again so Portugal hold both major national tournaments at the same time, his place as best ever could no longer be doubted. Especially after a champions league consecutive treble.

 

Thanks you have just shown me what a shambles those rankings are, Chile and Peru at either side of Spain. So he's scored against some poor teams, any idea how many of his goals were against Spain, Germany, Italy, England, Portugal, France, Croatia, Netherlands

The two don't compare, Ronaldo is way ahead.

 

Are you saying hat Ronaldo won Euro 16 by himself despite only scoring in two games and only lasting twenty odd minutes of the final? He certainly didn't win that tournament singlehandedly, in fact his contribution was minimal

 

But hard to score as many goals against European teams when he isn't European

 

No, but an exceptional player can, and sadly did in 1986.

Theres no doubt its a different era, but Maradona almost single handedly (sic) won that tournament for Argentina, and in an era where diving was less common, there were cynical fouls that didn't even get a yellow, and tackling was still allowed. Germany were a much more rounded team in 1990, but Lothar Matthaus was a giant on the world stage that tournament.

Ronaldo is the closest, Messi will go down as one of the 3 best players of an era (shame Bale is unlikely to ever play in a finals), but Pele or Maradona he isn't.

 

He still plays against them.