Messi & Argentina

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by TrueRed92, Jun 21, 2018.

  1. Sup

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    He does but not often

    Croatia: 2 goals and 2 assists in 3 games
    Netherlands: 0 goals in 2 games
    Spain: 2 goals in 3 games
    Germany: 1 goal in 4 games
    Italy: never played against them
    England: never played against us
    Portugal: 1 goal and 1 assist in 2 games
    France: 1 goal in 1 game
    Total: 7 goals and 3 assists in 15 games
     
  2. Sup

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    And Ronaldo

    Croatia: 1 goal and 2 assists in 3 games
    Netherlands: 4 goals in 5 games
    Spain: 3 goals and 1 assist in 6 games
    Germany: 0 goals and 1 assist in 4 games
    Italy: 0 goals in 2 games
    England: 0 goals in 3 games
    Portugal: never played (obviously)
    France: 0 goals in 4 game
    Total: 8 goals and 4 assists in 27 games

    So messi has only 7 goals compared to 8 but has got them in just 15 games as opposed to 25. Roughly 1 goal in 2 games compared to Ronald's 1 in 3
     
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  3. YTB

    YTBFC Guest

    Both Messi and Ronaldo are unreal at football. Two of the greatest to play the game. Ever. I like both of them, would probably prefer Ronaldo in my team, but prefer watching Messi if that makes sense. But both of them are ***** at defending and require help from others to flourish. I will always judge full backs and centre mids as the best players as they’ve got to be able to defend and attack.

    And so I still believe Lothar Mattahus is the best player in my lifetime. I can’t judge anyone who came before 1982 so that rules out Pele and Puskas amongst others.

    Mattahus was an incredible all-round midfielder in an age where tackles were tackles, he was a monster, but he could play. Had an amazing engine. Could score wonderful goals with either foot. The key reason West Germany won in 1990 and an absolute God at club level before then becoming a cracking defender as he aged.

    Ruud Gullit, Patrick Vieira, Paul Gascoigne, my kind of midfielder. All could play, all got stuck in. From a Reds perspective? Neil Redfearn of course.

    Cafu, Gary Neville, Andreas Brehme, Lilian Thuram, Phillip Lahm, Alexander Kolarov, Roberto Carlos.... proper footballers, great going forward and back. Dream full backs.

    Don’t get me wrong, I love watching the flair players, Ronaldo (Brazilian), Prosinecki, Klinsmann, Zidane, Stojkovic, Hagi, Figo etc etc. Paddy McCourt...

    But it’s always those who get the plaudits.


    Let’s hope the Reds have a good mix this season. Once England (who do have that mix) have won the World Cup.
     
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  4. Gordon Owen

    Gordon Owen Well-Known Member

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    Which site is that from? For the record l was quoting decent european sides off the top of my head.
     
  5. Sup

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    I checked a few different stats sites to make sure they were in agreement because as Adam hammill will testify they can sometimes be inaccurate but I've found the best one is transfermarkt which has a national sides page for every player and details all the national games including friendlies that theyve ever played.

    Messi's stats at international level are a lot better than people realise, they only reason they get ignored is because it isn't news to us while a European competitor is so it gets more media coverage
     
  6. Gordon Owen

    Gordon Owen Well-Known Member

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    In competitive internationals

    Messi 34 goals in 82 games
    Ronaldo 68 in 105 games

    Club football
    Messi 354 in 264 games (1 league 1 team)
    Ronaldo 398 in 436 games (3 leagues in 3 teams)

    I’d love to have seen Messi having 6 years in the Prem to compare club football.
     
  7. Mat

    Mateo Corbo Well-Known Member

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    Really don't get the argument about messi potentially struggling in the prem. Players of a similar stature and style have coped just fine. And he's been brilliant against english clubs in the champions league.
     
  8. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    It helps when using stats to backup your argument if the stats are actually accurate.

    Messi has 383 from 418 league games with Barcelona. 552 from 637 in total.
     
  9. Gordon Owen

    Gordon Owen Well-Known Member

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    I used soccerbase and league games, a very trustworthy site not wikipedia.
     
  10. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    I used transfermarkt. It might be one uses starting appearances and the other counts sub appearances too.
     
  11. Gordon Owen

    Gordon Owen Well-Known Member

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    A proper stat should separate sub appearances otherwise its misleading.
     
  12. Gordon Owen

    Gordon Owen Well-Known Member

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    He's alright against the glamour clubs, probably not so much Swansea or Stoke away, a bit like at the world cup for him. But who's to know he won't step out of his comfort zone but l can't fault him after being bottle fed by Xavi & Iniesta for most of his career.
     
  13. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    Agreed a better stat would be time on pitch.
     
  14. Gordon Owen

    Gordon Owen Well-Known Member

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    Depends you could come on for 18 games in a season for the last 10 mins and barely get into the game, or play two games and get a few goals, similar number of minutes.
     
  15. Mat

    Mateo Corbo Well-Known Member

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    Plenty other players over the years in that team who have been "bottle fed" and still not matched messi in terms of goals or assists. And really dont get why it's so hard playing against stoke or Swansea...
     
  16. Gordon Owen

    Gordon Owen Well-Known Member

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    Suarez 110 goals in 126 apps
    Neymar 68 goals in 128 apps

    Theres 3 of them fighting for that central role, who plays it? Do they switch about? Imagine Suarez in that great Barca side of a few years ago if thats what he's like now in a side that can't win much in Europe.
     
  17. Sup

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    Ronaldo has never played away at Swansea either, he has played away at Stoke once in a game where he should have been sent off for violent conduct ;)
     
  18. Bossman

    Bossman Well-Known Member

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    Just seen this on Twitter so it could be all garbage

    Most goals in Europe
    Messi
    Salah
    Kane

    Most big chances created in Europe
    Messi
    Payet
    Insigne

    Most dribbles in Europe
    Messi
    Hazard
    Neymar

    Most MOTM in Europe
    Messi
    Thauvin
    Fekir/Neymar

    A poor WC in an awful national side changes nothing
     
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  19. Dja

    Django Well-Known Member

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    Messi played deeper & also out wide more during the seasons with both Neymar & Suarez with him at Barca.

    If I remember right it was Messi himself who suggested he swapped roles with Suarez as initially Suarez & Neymar were playing the wide roles but it wasn’t really working as it didn’t suit Suarez so Messi swapped with Suarez & played wide right.

    Since Neymar left he’s gone back to a more forward role playing as a second striker off of Suarez
     
  20. Tyk

    Tyketical Masterstroke Well-Known Member

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    Exactly. Just like Wayne Rooney - prolific against utter s.hite.
     

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