my argument continues

Looks like Messi has been found out.

 

He retired from international football at half-time
A very good player but not a great

 

Would walk into the starting 11 of any team in this world cup.

 

Crackers.

 

He did very little today. Again. And please don't say anything about an assist for their second, it was a shot heading for the keeper's midriff until it got deflected in.
He probably is a great player but he's had little influence in this tournament.
Much as I dislike Maradona he was a player who COULD carry a team on his own.

 

I think he's been unfairly lumbered with carrying Argentina if anybody is crackers it's the Argentina manager leaving Aguero on the bench
Messi v Ronaldo?
Ronaldo done it everywhere he's played whereas Messi lacks the desire we've seen today his body language spoke volumes

 

And your arguments a daft one.

Ballon D’or at the last World Cup.

Scores a hat trick in a must win game to get them to the World Cup.

Scores a stunning goal against Nigeria in a must win game to get through.

Then when the pressures on & his team mates are squabbling he comes up with a superb cross for Aguero to nearly get them back in it.

I don’t know how anyone can say he’s having a bad game when he’s just not getting the ball, on the occasions he does he produces quality but his team mates aren’t up to it. I think many of you just see ‘Argentina’ & assume it’s a team full of quality players but its far from it.

 

The way the commentators and pundits carry on youd think Messi was playing for San Marino. Granted this isn't the swaggering Argentina of the past but you've got players in there with plenty of silverware for top clubs all over the world.

He's a generational player and we may not see the likes again for a while but surely to be classed as the GOAT you have to carry average teams to trophies and have a good attitude not just win stuff at a huge club, with the best players in the world whilst walking around kicking rocks if things don't go your way?

 

If you want daft n crackers see
MARADONA

 

He had the ball more than any other Argentina player..

Ronaldo carries the Portugal side by himself.

 

Portugal set up to play in a very specific way, basically keeping things tight and looking to Ronaldo to make something happen. So they should it works for them.
Argentina do not do this. Perhaps they should.

 

There's no doubt he's a brilliant footballer, but you enter the public consciousness, the world's consciousness and achieve legendary status, by how you play at the world cup: Pele, Hurst, Moore, Beckenbauer, Cruyff, Rossi, Maradonna, Ronaldo (Brazilian version)

Messi won the player of the tournament last time out, but the overwhelming reaction at the time was "well he was OK, but really?"

Football fans, and by that I mean fans of football, people with Sky subscriptions who would watch any football, those for whom the game itself is their passion, not just the club they support, cannot believe there a people who don't rate Messi that highly.

But many (most) people, even ones who have a keen interest in football and follow their hometown club (like myself), only see Messi every four years. Champions League viewing figures are quite low while even my mam will watch a bit of the world cup. And for us, Messi is not in the same league as the list of players above.

Our assessment may be wrong, but Messi will not be remembered in the same way as those who performed at their best on the biggest stage.

 

I don't like music but even I watch a bit of Glastonbury.

Katy Perry was great last year. I think she is the best artist ever.

 

He really doesn’t. Where does this come from? It’s only this tournament where Ronaldo has ‘carried’ the side. He certainly didn’t in 2016.

I’ve just gave you 2 examples in the last year of Messi carrying the Argentina side.

Portugal’s had a better team as well for probably 5 or 6 years.

A lot of people of late seem to be jumping on a bandwagon of Ronaldo won a Euro’s & Messi hasn’t won a World Cup or Copa America so Ronaldo’s suddenly better but if you look into it Portugal didn’t win a game in the easiest group in Euro 2016 & only fluked their way through as a best 3rd place team on goal difference. The final they won was when they were 2nd best & scored from a shot from outside the box when Ronaldo wasn’t even on the pitch.

Compare that to Messi who’s played starring roles in Argentina making the finals of a World Cup & 2 Copa America’s. He’d have a World Cup win if his team mate didn’t miss a sitter against Germany 4 years ago.

Do we really judge Messi & Ronaldo based on whether Eder scores from outside the box or not or whether the Argentinian striker scores the sitter or not? Surely not?

 

Champions League has only been on BT a couple of seasons, everyone’s seen how brilliant Messi was on ITV tearing English teams apart. Ask any Man Utd fan about him, they all remember the final against them.

And if players are only judged on world cups then that only adds to Messi > Ronaldo as he’s performed better than Ronaldo in them.

Basically your argument is ‘of the limited football I see I think these players are better’ but surely you shouldn’t be giving an opinion if you don’t watch them on the biggest stage in club football where the best play the best?

The best football gets played in the champions league, often in the World Cup players are knackered & don’t perform to their usual standards. It’s often players who’ve had injuries during the season & not played a full season who are fresher when the World Cup comes round. The Brazilian Ronaldo’s a great example of this.

It’s like me only watching half a formula one season & saying who the best driver is or only watching Wimbledon & saying ‘Murray’s better than Djokovic’ etc.

And I don’t think the reaction was that Messi was ‘ok’ in 2014, it was more of he had a brilliant tournament but James Rodriguez deserved it more.

Whether he was the best or not but I think most would agree he was still top 5 up there with Rodriguez, Kroos & Mascherano

 

I haven't, don't watch it.

 

No, my argument is he won't achieve the legendary status of the other players I mentioned because he hasn't done it at a world cup.

 

Argentina met one of the best 2 teams in the tournament.
Their team selection was questionable also.

 

Your memory differs to mine. This is what I remember.

https://www.sportskeeda.com/football/did-messi-really-deserve-the-golden-ball-world-cup

 

James Rodriguez deserved it