Theresa ‘Gollum’ May

I take my hat off to you then. Brave man. I'm less inclined to be cavalier about my granddaughter's insulin supply. I certainly wouldn't trust Rees Smugg to have it very high on his priority list. And if I have to do without my blood pressure meds I'll definitely not be visiting Oakwell

 

It's all about the colour or someone's skin . Bloody nuts .

 

Which is why a referendum is not a particularly good democratic tool because it reduces complex issues to a binary position. It's certainly not a good tool for something where the outcomes are so unknown and not going to happen for a significant period of time.

I don't necessarily think there should be one now. I'd go back and agree access to the customs union and single market. That's still delivering Brexit.

 

forget smugg or whatever you call him and i'm far from cavalier,I simply do not believe that the EU will stop our meds supplies and watch us die,it wont happen regardless of your fears, I will ask you this tho,do you really want to be part of and held to ransom to a union that would threaten our medicene supplies,if the cnuts are like that then they want draggin with the fukcin nostrills around every commonwealth cemetary in France and Belgium to remind them was sacrifices our grandparents did for them

btw,before they brought it in where you could pay annually where you could pay for your prescription i used to by nearly a years supply over the counter in India,a country which manufacture mosts meds,i'm sure the indians would help us out,so stop fretting.

Anyhow,its just another lower than a snakes belly tactic to try and scare folk into overturning brexit

 

a referendum had been promised for decades,by both sides of the commons,i think you only think its a bad idea because the result didnt go your way

i agree,about the single market with europe,which is what the original concept was sold on,you do not need a political union to trade freely,apart from anything its a complete waste of tax payers money,especially when you are a net contributor.

btw,i love europe,i go every year,sometime twice and have done so since the eighties,i've visit hundreds of places on my bike and in our motorhome but do i think we need a eu parliament for me to do this,no i dont.

A business model with 28 countries ,all with different wealth,wages,social welfare etc is not a good model imo,it wants scrapping now

 

And I respect your reasons for wanting to leave. I don't agree it's the right way forward, personally i think on the merits of the argument we should cancel Brexit tomorrow. But I also appreciate that the flaws of the referendum make it incredibly difficult to do so. So if we are tied in to Brexit it should be the least damaging one which is the maximum integration possible because that is the only way you can deliver an unclear referendum when 48% don't want Brexit at all.

But if no deal is the only option Brexit then we should vote again tomorrow. Because the referendum was not fought or discussed on that basis and so it would represent a fundamental change.

 

the referendum was fought on in or out Ark,not in or soft or hard or whatever is on the table,the public were well aware that a no deal scenario was a possibility.



i personally dont think a no deal will ever happen,we are a big part of the eu's market and the industries and manufacturers over there would not want to lose us,i've already posted a link as to the strength of feeling in germany,all which is failing to find its way into the mainstream media here because neither our establishment nor the eu want to give the people here any ammo.We are in a huge trading deficit with the EU so i simply cannot see a reason why those companies would take a no deal on the chin,it wont happen.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...y-warns-of-massive-crisis-from-no-deal-brexit

 

They were certainly not. The leave campaign told us all everyone would be clamouring to do us favours and we’d have no trouble making deals because we buy a bit of French cheese and the odd car from Germany. Lies mean lies.

 

But again, even in this post, even now, you are saying no deal won't happen. And that was vote leaves whole campaign back then. This very argument. We'll be ok if we leave with no deal but it won't come to that. We're tok important. You can't tell me that some leave voters therefore probably thought it would never come to no deal in casting their vote.

And the key point us you literally can't. Just in that I can't tell you the opposite.

Which is why in the case of no deal I don't see how it can be implemented without asking the public again.

If some sort of a deal can be got through parliament then I probably agree it would be difficult to hold another referendum

 

I deliberately chose Minford because of his association with the Leave campaign and their use of his models. Remember he is supporting Leave, and that is his prediction. I paraphrase (someone did post the video on here a while ago), but his words were something like "we will have to let it run down". His "Britain Alone" policy aims to eliminate manufacturing and increase wage inequality. The rich get richer and the poor get poorer, while having less protections from unscrupulous employers. He also disagrees with the gravity trade model (so more pollution as we trade with more distant countries) but reckons the UK will be better off by £135bn per year as a result, but ignores the loss of services from losing the single market.

You can see why the rich Leavers love his work. Not many of the 99% will though if they follow this model.

Most other economists disagree with this. In general, their predictions are less dire for manufacturing (although UK manufacturing can't compete with China or the cheaper Asian/African countries) but with a significant hit to most market sectors over time, but it depends on the terms of leaving.

 

Most people had no idea that any kind of "deal" needed to be done after we voted leave.

They just assumed we were "leaving". Whatever that meant.

I thought that it meant we were out of the whole caboodle.

We were ******* off. Not hard or soft Brexit. Just out and starting again on our own. Trading independently. As you do.

I didn't think we'd spend years in a Python way wondering "How shall we **** off".

Nor did 17.4 million. IMO.

 

And understatement means understatement, Britain takes almost 1 in 5 German car exports, their single biggest customer with sales of €23b...according to Fullfact.org.

 

The EU aren't stopping our med supplies. We are withdrawing from the EU, and the result of that is that without a trade agreement we either need to perform customs checks on incoming goods *or* we don't perform customs check on all incoming goods (most favoured partner rules). We are withdrawing from the EMA, we are withdrawing from EuroAtom, we are withdrawing from the other organizations, we are ending FoM. We are doing all of this to ourselves.

The EU that is doing anything except applying the rules - the rules that we helped to write. And they need to apply the rules because they have borders with quite a few countries and without a deal, if they let us break the rules, *they have to let all the other countries with borders* have the same access. Those are the WTO rules.

The government response to this is "Let the market decide". It seems they haven't learnt anything from the 1840s, when the same Laissez-Faire market policies let 1 million British subjects on the island of Ireland (It was the UK of GB and Ireland in those days) starve to death and forced another 1 million to emigrate, while taking food from Ireland and selling it in England.

 

When anyone from the remain side mentioned it might be a little difficult to “just **** off” they were shouted down and it was labelled project fear. Lies mean lies.

 

You know I was being disingenuous to make a point. The leave campaign spent an hour on national telly telling everyone Germany would be falling over themselves to cosy up to us. Lies mean lies.

 

I stated in 2016 that leaving the EU would never happen and I stand by it now. The PM will have gone by this time tomorrow - she’s been summoned by the 1922 committee after PMQs - her ‘deal’ will never draw breath and as the vast majority in the HoC won’t allow a no-deal option, they’ll pull the plug on the whole ridiculous, ill-informed sh*tshow.

 

In Europe, perhaps.

The rate of annual sales of BMWs in China has increased by more than the total annual sales of BMWs in the UK since the referendum vote. We sell ~160,000 new BMWs per year. Sales in China are increasing by ~80,000 per year.

Volkswagen sold 4.1m cars in China in 2017. Out of a total of 10.7m worldwide. Chinese sales are increasing by 5% year on year.

For comparison, total UK new car sales in 2017 were 2.5m. (down 5.7% from 2016).

Prices are slightly cheaper in China. But not significantly, and that is more to do with the fall of the GBP that anything else.

 

Apologies for that!! But actually if you read the German press their Engineering and Agricultural business bodies have been lobbying very hard to get a deal organised despite what the Indy and the Grauniad say.

 

Perhaps Fullfact.org has got it's facts wrong....I thought the US overtook us about 5 yrs ago tbh.
https://fullfact.org/europe/german-cars-uk/

 

It could also be the "made domestically" part. The cars for the China market could be made in Asia, which would still leave the UK as one of the largest European markets. But in terms of the German car companies, our importance is diminishing.