Theresa get a confidence vote

May is like one of those people who get into debt, dig themselves a n even deeper hole and when the bills and final demands start arriving put them all at the back of the drawer and pretend everything is OK. All it does is makes matters worse.
Whatever side you are on re Brexit, how is it possible for one person to delay again making one of the most important decisions this country has faced in decades?
It is the uncertainty that is most damaging and yet, parliament will now recess for Christmas, and no vote will take place until mid-late January. Worse still unless there is a Christmas miracle the result of that vote is almost certainly that the deal on offer will be voted down.
Rightly or wrongly (and I don't want to get into the debate again as we are all entrenched in our views) the majority of those who voted, voted to leave the EU but, given the shambles that the Govt have made of the whole process and the choice of Remain, Leave with deal or leave with no deal, logic dictates we revoke Article 50. However, the damage to the cohesion of our society will be huge if that was to happen and the credibility of the nation diminished and the democratic process re-written.

 

Again, I respect your points but let me just go back to the statement that made me jump in on this thread...…

"democracy dies that day" followed by the argument that another vote would be the death of democracy.

Just let that statement sink in. Having a vote would be the death of democracy.

Ridiculous.

And that's me done on this point.

 

People who say a second referendum would be undemocratic make me laugh.

I'll tell you what is undemocratic - seeking to prevent a referendum because you want to preserve the current position which is now unlikely to reflect the view of the majority.

 

The statement we have from the Italian Government is that the status of expat Pensioners will not change re Healthcare after Brexit. I do not know what the situation is in France. Incidentally you only get so many months on the S1 based on your previous 12/24?? month contributions (how many years and how much you have paid per months is apparently irrelevant) if you are not of state pensionable age as we were.
We both took early retirement/redundancy but spent around 12 months selling our UK home before moving so we only got around 7 months of S1 cover when we eventually took up tax residency in Italy. We have now been here 6 years and have permanent status. Once you get to UK state pensionable age you apply for an S1 (or equivalent) at the same time as you apply for your pension. This gives reciprocal Healthcare arrangement on a country by country basis (like dual taxation treaties which are nothing to do with EU membership). All that said things could change in other countries.
The Good news is that when our S1 expired during the period we have no reciprocal cover (I dont qualify for my state pension until later next year) we paid into the Italian Health system entitling us to full benefits enjoyed by Italians. This cost us the paltry sum of (each) around 388 euros per year and we pay contributory sums for any major treatments e.g. Doppler scans 60 euros, blood tests betwee 10 and 60 euros depending on how many tests. My wife had a biopsy after a routine (free) screening program and subsequent surgery to remove a suspect cluster of cells and follow up which amounted to around 150 euro contribution. A friend had cancer (now in remission) and had extensive Chemo, operations and other treatments lasting over a year and paid an upfront contribution of 200 euros. There is no requirement (as apparently is the case in the UK) for Private Health cover for expat status to be resident. Youno doubt will know the situation better in France.

 

Yes you do. They put forward a pack of what could happen, called a manifesto. Then you vote, then they do what they want.

 

Why have you contradicted yourself? exactly my point however you hade a manifesto, where was the deal that’s on the table 2 years ago? It wasn’t on any manifesto, you had every leaver telling you Brexit would be a doddle, and every leaver telling you remain were project fear for having the temerity to suggest it might be a bit difficult or it might cost us money. That manifesto was just called rubbish by leavers

 

Thanks for the input, @Tekkytyke. Since 2015, early retirees from the UK are no longer eligible for an S1 certificate. Also, although the status of existing expat pensioners is unlikely to change that doesn't mean that it's going to be as easy to become an expat pensioner. Entry to the French health system in particular is something the French government have been fighting with the EU to restrict and once the UK is no longer a member of the group it's almost certain to be much harder to join, at least for a qualifying period and as both my wife and I have pre-existing medical conditions that's likely to be an expensive time. The UK no longer offers a single day of transitional support in that regard - from the day I leave the country we're on our own regardless of our full histories of contributions. Our eligibility to pay into the French system and join it and whether that will be after 3 months, 5 years or not at all is the biggest of many big open issues on which we're just having to wait to see what the resolution is.

Presumably you emigrated during a time when there was a right to free movement between the UK and Italy, as there is today. I won't have that luxury, that's the problem in a nutshell.

 

Well we do know about remain we’ve been in 40 odd years ,
Your right about leave though we know nothing it’s a leap on the dark.
It’s like being on a high diving board ready to jump not knowing what’s in the murky waters below .
I’ll hazard a guess though that Donald Trump and co are there with documents of American Insurance company ready to dtrp in and complete the job of dismantling by stealth our NHS. Also lowering the food standards policy.
Our friend in waiting .

 

I understand. As regards free movement I suppose it depends on what the French attitude is at the time. Italy has a relaxed attitude to 'legal' migrants (inspite of all the media furore over 'extreme right wing government' ). We know, or know of ,many non-EU people living here who have arrived recently and apart from things like driving licence exchange - EU members can swap relatively easily (albeit it costs around 100 euros for medicals photos etc), whilst US and Aussies have only a very limited time to do so before they have to take full Italian driving test (theory and practical).

As you say, who knows how it might change. However, my understanding from friends is that France is considerably different (tougher?) than Italy when it comes to expat rights and regulations whether they are EU citizens or none EU citizens.

Regardless of all that. I wish you the very best of luck and sincerely hope whatever the outcome of Brexit you are able to pursue your dream like we have. Although some on here may consider it treasonable to say so but we have absolutely no desire to relocate back to the UK. Italy, for all its faults, offers a far better quality of life for those of us with a very modest income and who are not extremely wealthy.

 

I have heard anecdotally, that if you move abroad and come back then you don't automatically qualify for UK benefits. I don't *think* this covers pensions, but I did see someone who spent a year in Spain after 20+ years working in the UK had their application for Universal Credit turned down when they returned. So those that have left already, and any that leave in the future, might find returning a lot harder too.

 

I believe you are correct. However state pension is NOT a benefit so continues to be paid (some scaremongering also existed re continuation of pension for expats after Brexit whether they return or not. IMHO if you are returning and needing benefits, since you have not been paying into the Welfare system for many years I fail to see why you should be treated differently to any other migrant just because you have UK citizenship (extreme hardship notwithstanding)

 

I don't know about benefits when returning as to be frank it doesn't affect my pressing decisions and I've not looked into it. I do however know that if one returns and resumes settled residency status then one qualifies immediately for re-entry to the NHS. Settled residency means not keeping a foot in both camps - one must move one's life lock, stock and barrel back to the UK.

There was some talk about EU-based expats' pensions not being included in the triple lock or similar indexing post-Brexit but again, we'll just have to wait and see what happens there. The Tories are currently saying it'll stay as it is in the UK so again, that's not a pressing concern although there's always the risk of a change of policy in the future.

 

You are right Marlon we do know what remain means. That's why so many voted to leave.

 

I think that so many were lied to with false accusations .
The amount of people I know who now think that Brexit will stop people coming from India ,Pakistan and Africa is laughable imo