Martina Navratilova

I'm pleased I made you laff father.

 

Bang out of order. You're implying that everyone with a different opinion to you is a bigot which is a very intolerant position to take. If screaming bigot at people who hold a different view to you makes you feel like you're a better person then fill your boots but you're probably right that a public forum is not the place for you.

 

Just a quick point on Serena Williams. John McEnroe claimed the top 700 men would beat her. Others have claimed he was pandering to her a bit and in reality it would be the top 1,500. At least.

 

I fully support Martina & Sharon's views. I feel sorry for female athletes/sportspeople who have trained, and made sacrifices, over a number of years to reach the pinnacle of their field, only to have victory snatched from them from a "person" with an unfair advantage.

 

It is only similar to the situation in the Paralympic Games, where you need to have different categories of disability to keep a level playing field, as much as possible between competitors. I don't think anyone would say that by creating these categories anyone is being discriminatory, it just allows disabled people, with a range of disabilities compete against one another fairly.

There have been some great posts on this thread about the subject & I think Martina & Sharon have valid points to make too.
Sport is a highly politicised, especially in places like China & Russia & you wouldn't put it past countries like this to take advantage.

 

But no one is addressing the issue -

How to resolve the challenge of making things fair without discriminating against those women who have transitioned ?

 

Easy. Have a separate transgender category .

 

They might struggle for sponsorship.

More seriously, despite @DannyWilsonLovechild largely disagreeing with most of us on this thread, regarding boundaries / rules he did make a good point of accepting people who have transitioned as their new self & on that level I rest this thread to bed.

 

She is absolutely right, the worlds gone mad. Might as well scrap women’s sports if this carries on. This is from someone who regards themselves as progressive, but you can’t deny your chromosomes not matter what you chop off, end of story.

 

My mate who’s never been a competitive athlete at any level other than a PE teacher was finishing the London Marathon with the elite women.

 

This is a big issue in Athletics at the moment and it is wrong to say that trans gender athletes do not have an advantage. A woman transforming to a man will not have an advantage. A man transforming to a woman could have a massive advantage. You only have to look at Semenya who is female but has internal testes which produce much higher levels of testosterone than a woman normally has. If you use hormone therapy to reduce testosterone their performance drops. Women also have a lower VO2max than men. This can be 20% lower. I'm an OAP and finish in front of women in their 30s at parkrun. Last Saturday only 3 out of 71 women finished before I did. Males transforming to females do have an advantage if their testosterone levels are as high as men.

 

I am afraid that this issue has the potential to destroy women's sport at the top level. Where is the incentive for, say, a young Kelly Holmes to sacrifice everything in pursuit of being the best when they can see that, through biological facts beyond her control, she will never get the chance to be the best?

 

The ones as you say who are born into the wrong bodies are still biologically the same as the body they were born with.
Thinking you are born into the wrong body doesn't suddenly reduce your muscle mass or lung capacity.
Now I totally empathise with people who believe they are born into the wrong body but I also believe athletes should compete in events against the same sex as they were born as not what they think they are.
I can't think of one physical event that women are beter than men therefore the ones wanting to compete as a different Sex at a guess will be men who now identify as women

 

https://www.metro.news/sam-quek-being-able-to-compete-is-the-right-of-all-women/1463617/

intersting article on it by Sam Quek here.

 

Serena herself claims it's the top 350 (after adjusting from top 200 when the 203rd man beat her without breaking a sweat)

I think 1,500 is probably about right.

 

Correct, but it adds another dimension because depending on their treatment, it would give them an advantage over women, so they wouldn't be able to play in that group either.

In fact, if they're taking testosterone, it would probably be classed as PEDs?

 

The cyncial side of me is very much suggesting they are playing pick and choose....

 

Who in particular do you think Martina is referring to with her statement? She must have someone in mind who MUST be playing at the very top in dare I say, tennis?

 

I don't think she was referring to anyone in particular, but the comments came not long after a "person" won gold in women's track cycling.

 

I bet it's probably more but I'll be generous! I bet there isn't too much difference in standard between the male ranked 1,500 and the male ranked 1,800th. I reckon they'd both beat her.