Sorry all ...but Brexit

Career politicians the lot of them.Labour will disagree on any deal whatsoever just because they want the Tories out . Rebel Tories will disagree because they want May out. DUP won't agree with Irish backstop but cant come up with any alternatives. The option of no deal has been taken off the table by these same plonkers that won't compromise on what they want. The general public are totally disillusioned with the lot of them. This fiasco could see the end of the two party monopoly and the rise of the Green party.

 

The problem with new parties is that they are full of nutcases.

Look at UKIP. Great when it's just farage - perfectly demonstrated by the rise of the Brexit party. Once you try and get 600 MP candidates its' full of racists, bigots, anitsemites and not rapists - and not one of them can agree with each other.

So the greens in principle seem great - what kind of lunatics are under the surface in the green party - and what dirt will the BBC and other establishment drag up on them from their twitter history when they gather a bit of momentum. How united are they when it's more than Caroline Lucas and her best buddy.

The problem with new parties is you just get a bit of a movement going and all past crimes come splurging out in the News of the World as the establishment seeks to re-establish themselves with the help of their billionaire media owners and those in the BBC inside the Westminster bubble.

I'd love for it to happen - but I'm not overly optimistic.



With the rise of the right in Europe - the solution may well be something left field. However unlikely it might sound one solution to this could be the EU changing the free movement of people principle. It might be incredibly difficult to agree - likely impossible. But imagine if they said we could stay with increased restrictions on free movement. Now that would be a game changer - not just here but could temper nationalism elsewhere.

But that will never happen either.

Guess we need a good war to sort it all out.

 

Corbyn has no need to move a vote of no
confidence in May. Her own party are preparing
to do that right now. They are trying
to change the parties rules. The Tories are in
real trouble. One of their own Heseltine, has
declared he will be voting Liberal Democrat at
the Euros and has had the Tory Whip removed.

As for her or anyone, achieving a good deal to
leave. To discourage "others" of like mind, its
absolutey logical to understand why the EU
were never ever, going to agree to grant us our
full " wish list." They will not budge, because now the no deal option is probably off the table, they are banking on Parliament over
turning Article 50 , which ultimately could mean that we stay in the EU.

 

The opposition party’s are just that ,opposition by nature of one party’s goals that effect the country.
This notion that the opposition just disagrees to be awkward is nonsense.
They disagree because of the way they want the country run .
The party’s have come together in the past on wars etc .
When the deals May had brought back are to pacify her party and beggar the country’s interest it is the oppositions party’s duty to oppose any disadvantage this country is exposed to and I wouldn’t want it any different .
Mays deal is an attempted Tory healing plaster nothing more nothing less.

 

Aye, because Farage is the opposite of a racist, bigot or anti-semite, isn't he.

 

'Impartial analysis' - aye alright.

If this was an impartial analysis, I shouldn't be able to tell which way you voted in the referendum. You make it very obvious you're a leave voter with phrases like "Project Fear" and "the BBC will continue to put their fingers in their ears and goo blah blah blah and ignroe ti"

 

I'm fully in favour of free movement, but it's worth pointing out that the UK had plenty of power to water it down while still remaining in the EU. They could have restricted benefits to European citizens, they could have put further restrictions on people moving from countries which had just joined the EU. For whatever reason the government didn't do any of these things, and I think at this point (looking at the quality of the debate) that particular ship has sailed.

 

Are you talking about THE MILKSHAKE KID.

 

My view is clear - I think we should leave. I voted leave. This is true.

In reality I think the EU should reform and we should stay. But with the EU in it's current state we should leave. But lets not over complicate things


We can't go back three years and do the whole thing properly - what's done is done - we are where we are - we're in a right old mess. Leave or remain - who is to blame. All this is irelevant. how do we go forards.

I've put a lot of thought into how anyone can extracate us from the mess. Whether impartial is the right word to use I'm not sure - but I think my analysis is a pragmatic assessment.


How do you suggest we remain in a way that doesn't cause the rise of the far right. That would be acceptable to me. Convince me how to do it.

 

How do you suggest we leave in a way that doesn't cause the rise of the far right? People losing jobs always gives the right ammunition, and when it is as well funded and organized as it is now, it is difficult to see how we can stop it.

Man of the PayPal.

 

Should have thrown it straight in his kisser, the thatcher loving barsteward.

 

The ONLY benefit I can see in this whole fiasco is that it may finally bring about the end of our terrible two party dominated political system and allow some fresh air and fresh thinking into the whole thing.
I feel there's a hell of a lot of people who vote Labour but aren't socialists but hate the Tories and vice versa. There's a lot of Liberals who feel it's a wasted vote.
Maybe the brexit crisis may enfranchise people long term.
I'm not even convinced that that will happen though.

 

Whatever system we end up with I don't see how we can square the circle as regards Brexit. Of the voting population 37.4% voted leave, 34.7% voted remain with others at 27.9%. All my life I have understood that to make things work you need the vast majority in support, not just a majority (unless in a dictatorship of course).

 

I agree about brexit. That's going to be an open wound in the country for a long time to come. I was talking about the general political landscape moving forward. I'm sick to death of the Labour, Tory tribalism. Have been for a long, long time.

 

The Brexiteers are blaming the remainers when in truth when the referendum results were declared the Brexiteers didn’t want the blame or have the know how to achieve what they stated in their referendum promises .
They left like rats in a sinking ship for others that didn’t believe in what they were doing and snarling and criticising on the sidelines .
The whole blame lies on Farage, Gove and Johnstone and the whole leave lies they spouted.
They even admit that some of their predictions and forecasts were dubious and in some cases out and out fantasies , in years gone by they would have been taken to the Tower and paid for their misgivings .

 

What do you define as freedom of movement?

 

I voted leave, I’m not a racist white van man but someone opposed to the EU in its current form. Why is it that an assumption is made that leavers are all thick racist bigots. Why are we described as the far right. Why cant the liberals accept that folk who disagree with them are as intelligent as they - but see things differently. I didn't vote for a deal, a second referendum or revoke. I, and millions like me voted to leave, so lets crack on. Leave WTO rules, the sky won’t fall in.

 

Can you explain how this will work?
As most prominent brexiteers can’t and I’m concerned the sky might fall in. Why won’t it?

 

At the risk of attracting the anger of all and sundry on this board, because I know that Barnsley is a strong leaver constituency and blames Europe for all the troubles that the Tories heaped upon it. The referendum was aimed at fixing something that wasn't broken in the nation as a whole. It offered problems within the Tory party, but on the whole it has done more good than harm to the nation in general. We are now a truly divided nation and it will take more than a European, or indeed a general election to heal. It will take a generation. The demagogues are now on the loose and their baying supporters are demanding to be fed.

 

When I talk about being in favour of it? Just that. I think that movement between countries and porous borders in general are, in general, good things. I can't think of many countries in history which have been made poorer through immigration, and most of the world's great countries and cities became great because of it. The more ability that people have to live and work wherever they like the better, as far as I'm concerned.