2nd Referendum

Any agreement or lack of that we would have with the EU on leaving has not been confirmed, and never voted on by the public. That's the point of a second vote, not just to rerun the first referendum.

 

Why should we vote in that? It’s for politicians to sort out...?

 

And that's working well so far.

I'm not a fan of another referendum, but can't see any other way. Much rather that than leave with no deal because tory members vote a loon to be their leader.

 

I'll repeat what I said in another thread. I don't understand any of the opposition to a 2nd referendum. If the majority of the country still want to leave they will win it again. If the majority of the country now want to remain, that proves asking again was the right thing to do. The demographic shift alone will probably change the outcome. It's too important an issue not to make sure.

 

The recent election saw an "unexpected" increase in the number of Green MEPs, which will probably help to move the EU into more climate action within the next cycle. So it is changing, and will change, in the direction wanted by the voters of the EU.

 

Thanks for that Kcp...I think I only argue respectfully and rarely get carried further..I'll continue in that vein.
I certainly appreciate many of the points you have made...but
Every single politician , I cannot recall a single dissenter....whether Leave or Remain told us that the result was final and would be enacted, some as a promise, some as a warning, if anyone can point out those that said otherwise I will be grateful to be corrected.

Following the referendum every politician said they would respect the result...perhaps except Dominic Grieve who was very quick out of the blocks to say it was only advisory...an honest man would have gone to great pains to make that clear during the campaign...as far as I am aware he did not.

The problem has been that we had a country who voted 52-

Like Nicola Sturgeon, the name is in the party..it's a lifelong committments, but for the rest of us the job was over.
If anyone can access the BBS archive for the evening of June 23rd when it appeared Remain had won I think you'll find those of us who argued for Leave expressed acceptance of defeat.

 

It would be respected if some of the extreme brexiters and tories would accept some compromise.

The question about what the people want should now be secondary to what is possible. If it's possible to leave the single market and customs union whilst keeping the Irish border invisible, then crack on. If not, time people were honest and laid out what can and can't be done. If that means a Norway style arrangement until relevant technology is developed then so be it.

 

The difference is that in a General Election the result is implemented and you are given 4 years to decide whether it was the right decision. The referendum result has never been implemented. Totally undemocratic, what ever kind of spin you try to put on it.The only way to unite the country again is to leave and see what happens, in 3 or 4 years hold a second referendum. Believe me the EU would welcome us back if the decision went that way, and no-one could complain about it.

 

the referendum has to be accepted,the majority decision was out.

the debacle that has followed for the next three years has been pathetic,we should have pulled out then started negotiating and if the eu refused to budge then so be it , we then proceed the WTO and start negotiations from there.

the main problem has been that the majority of the commons on all sides , want to remain, they neither have the appetite or the back bone to sort the issues in hand, put simply they want us in and this includes many tories

the country was divided before the referendum and has been for decades, even 40 years ago the common theme at the pits i worked at was we should never have joined the common market, the men saw the tories taking us deeper and deeper in, becoming more enshrined into the political side of things, despite been promised to the contrary... when masstricht was signed there was hell on, all over the country and for the following 5 or 6 years both the tories and labour promised the people a say in the matter, the only reason the referendum was 52/48 was because it had not been held 20 years previous, if it had the vote to leave would have been greater

people go on about demographics changing.. a lot of these younger people will not have a clue as to what masstricht is and what the negotiations between the tories and the eu were, how the eu went back on promises made to thatcher.

half of them dont even know who their mp is,.. they arnt interested in the political side of things.. free roaming charges and cheap hols are the be all and end all to them

i even saw a video of a young lass demonstrating outside the commons and when they were interviewing her she said she was concerned about the nhs, believing that it was the eu that controlled it.

 

the eu making out we are not needed and wont be missed is nothing more than their 'poker' face.. this country hands over way too much cash for this to be the case..

 

The decision to leave was taken, how wasn’t. This should be for the politicians to determine not for the public to vote on.
If another referendum is required it should be a straight yes or no again not with variants as options.
It’s no coincidence that most MPs don’t want to leave,!that they can’t get an agreement and a lot of MPs both secretly and openly wanting another vote, the reason is simple, it’s cos they don’t want to leave and are hoping to force the issue so the public vote and opt to remain, thus absolving them of any blame.
IMO what should have happened was a panel should have been elected by MPs to take over the process and negotiate the exit.

 

i even saw a video of a young lass demonstrating outside the commons and when they were interviewing her she said she was concerned about the nhs, believing that it was the eu that controlled it.[/QUOTE]


There are thickos on both sides who don't understand the politics. One thing that no Brexiter has ever been able to tell me is who is going to invest in Barnsley / the north once we're out of the EU? Nigel narcissist Farage, Boris "f**k business" Johnson, any Tory government - I don't think so? So who are they going to blame when services / infrastructure etc in the north are truly degraded - Sir Steve?

 

I’d say it’s because they know the implications of not staying in and are wanting to prevent it rather than selfish views imo.

 

I'm sorry I don't agree with you on this issue the country had its largest turn out of voters and the question was asked
Stay
Leave
Put your tick in the box
The trouble with politicians is they all have some financial business interests within Europe this is probably funded from European money and they are probably making 3 to 4 times their salary out of this is why they have been dragging their feet for so long.
The voting public voted the leave campaign won buy a 1.7 million votes and the politicians are making them look like fools.

 

What I find really sad about this whole business is that it isn’t and never was about the pros and cons of being in or out of the EU. I has always been about what’s best for the Conservative party.
Cameron held his election with the promise of a referendum for no other reason than to ultimately kick Farage and UKIP into the long grass. He then couldn’t get the concessions he wanted out of the EU and it turned into his worst nightmare letting the leavers carry the day.
Come back to today and the CP is in such disarray that there’s no chance of them holding a general election because then would be absolutely slaughtered and would be lucky to form HM opposition afterwards. There is nothing to gain for them in having another referendum so there won’t be one. None of the runners and riders to be the next PM, in so far as I’m aware have declared themselves in favour of another referendum
In the mean time the country continues to lurch along completely rudderless. Roads are knackered, and the stuffing is coming out of the care system. I could go on.
Oh and the Labour Party is no better. Now favouring another referendum because the EU election results demonstrated the desire for one.
I can only hope that the two party system is smashed for good as a consequence of all this. It is the only good I can see coming out of the mess we are in

 

The premise of the "Leave" campaign was that a trade deal would be achieved easily. This was total lies. It we pull out on WTO rules it could take 10 years to work out a trade deal, at which point we could be totally fecked.

 

We need a decent PR system, like most modern countries have. Only us the the USA stick to first past the post to maintain the status quo.
It will result in the break up of the two party system, which is why both parties have opposed it.

 

The 1992 general election was the largest turnout of voters ever in the UK. It returned the Major government that collapsed with a massive swing to Blair's Labour 5 years later.

If the result was blemished enough for the QC representing the government to admit in court it would have had to be rerun if it was legally-binding, like any other election in the UK, is it still democratic to ignore the illegalities behind the result?

 

Well, it's been interesting to read people's views on another referendum. Yet again here has been another Brexit post where people simply cannot agree with one another. Reflects the country I suppose. As another poster on this forum recently suggested there should be no more brexit posting for a while. I think I'll take the hint and stop contributing to anything Brexitwise for a while. Thanks to one or two who took the time to respond courteously to my original post. Cheers.