Even by American Standards this takes some believing

It's not as easy as you might think. Especially if you're doing it with one hand in your pocket.

 

Conan, most people on here are capable of reasonable debate, that's why, despite a wide range of opinions, it still works as a community. You don't think it does, you're forever saying it's dead, you have a long list of users with whom you regularly have spats. To be honest, I can't remember you having reasoned debate with anyone. Even those that still engage with you, and the number is forever dwindling, get instantly frustrated when a good point is met with a dumb response. Not everyone gets along. I would be surprised if most people don't find there are a couple of users with whom they don't hit it off. You don't get along with a significant number of the BBS. So, for you to claim I'm not all there, in a thread where I've argued that shooting a pregnant woman is not the done thing, whether you're being attacked by her or not, and that the responsibility of the shooting is that of the person who took the shot, not the person who took the bullet, I actually find quite comforting.

 

Thank goodness for British law where self defence has to be proportionate.

And if you shoot a pregnant woman in the belly the likelihood is that the foetus will be harmed considering that's where its positioned and even a 3 year old knows a baby lives in mummy s tummy.

Dont see how anyone can try and defend that crazy judgement

 

For one thing I can’t get my head round a society where people think pregnant women should keep themselves to themselves tbh. Everybody gets annoyed at some stage it’s almost unavoidable.
The buggy though is a society that lets a person go free who thinks it’s acceptable to shoot a pregnant woman ( or anybody for that matter) in the stomach.

 

We can't defend it because in our society every action we take has to be reasonable and as you said, proportionate to the situation. Unfortunately American states don't always make that distinction. We can't get our heads around this because it doesn't make sense as our default position is "normal".

Don't forget, America still operates under a system that allows citizens to walk around with a loaded weapon because their constitution says they have a right to, even though it was written when weapons were single shot, black powder muskets that were 5ft long and had an effective range of about 20ft. Thats the level of stupidity you're dealing with over there, but their laws are their laws.

 

I never said it was OK to shoot a pregnant woman. You are arguing with something I never said and it is easier to do this than actually address the points I have made. You are then percieved to have won the argument because you are morally superior even though I never tried to start a moral debate.

After your diatribe against Mario I really don't think you should be giving advice on forum etiquette to anyone. In fact, didn't you do it to someone else recently?

 

What do you think should have happened to Tony Martin?

 

What did happen, given that he shot them in the back as I recall?

 

Your second paragraph largely sums it up. The problem in this situation is that people don't know the law, if they do they are ignoring it, and they are filling the blanks in with "facts" to fit their narrative. There is nothing racist about this situation and we do not know how physical the situation became. People are trying to make out it was just a bit of verbal abuse. There has to be more to it than that.

There are bonkers laws all over the world but the people in those countries have to live under those laws whether they like it or not - as do visitors to these countries. It's bonkers that you can't have a beer in Dubai but we wouldn't have any sympathy for someone who got caught drinking. You wouldn't go flaunting your homosexuality in Brunei etc etc

 

They broke in, fled the scene and he shot them in the back with a legal shot gun. Could he been defending his property when they were already fleeing the scene?

 

I meant I agreed with what did happen.

 

It was deemed an appropriate response in court.

Hence why the manslaughter charge was dropped against her.

 

That's not what I asked. I asked if you did. There have been innumerable appalling and barbaric decisions made by courts, law makers and politicians in human history. They still happen today. We could accept them all, but I don't believe that because the decision was made by a judge it necessarily makes it the right one.

Do you think it was an appropriate response?

 

They were knocking the **** out of each other in a carpark.
If she felt the only reason to protect herself from serious injury was to use a weapon as a means of defence then yes it was an appropriate response. Especially when trying to flee the person dishing out the kick in.

Unfortunatly in America those weapons tend to be guns.

The evidence has already been presented to 23 of her peers who were able to listen to the prosecutions case in full,where required listen to witnesses and analyse evidence from different angles. Not to decide guilt but to decide whether there is a case to answer...

They concluded there was no case to answer.

 

Good point, women five months pregnant are notoriously hard to get away from

 

You were obvious there so just tell us what happened.

Btw both DAs are black - do you still think it's a race issue? Probably half of the Birmingham PD is black.

 

I know. A raging 5 month pregnant woman trying to do you harm..

Do you think after she got shot she went to the ER?

 

I don’t know you personally Conan but ( and this is a personal opinion) not a fact based thing, on here you consistently come across as a prize ****, so you are now on ignore, which I suspect follows the tactics of many others.

 

Another one who doesn't like being challenged.

 

I can't believe I'm defending him, but he's not that bad if you actually read what he says and don't assume everything has hidden meaning.
I used to do the same, look beyond his words. Sometimes it's difficult not to, he comes across as combative quite a lot, but I think that's just his way of speaking.

This place is a lot more enjoyable when you try and debate without the intention of changing someone's mind.