[Official Site] Club Statement.

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Newsbot, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. red

    redrum Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if there was a song about bahre stealing your deck chair while on holiday it would have had the same effect. Does seem abit of a over reaction but if the club want us to stop we must respect it or the club could face sanctions from the efl and/or kick it out
     
  2. pon

    pontyender Well-Known Member

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    That line of the song is puerile and obscene nonsense, inappropriate and distasteful, regardless of the racist issue.
     
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  3. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    England fans don't sing it about Harry Maguire. He's built like Diaby, no?
     
  4. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    They're not 'so called' fans, they're fans. Disagreeing with/Disliking anything about them doesn't change that.
    Black people are many times more likely to be born with Sickle Cell Disease than white people. That is a truism. It is also an assumption based on the colour of a person's skin. Is it racist?
    That is the first definition of the word I've read on here that I agree with.
    Because it is!

    I don't condone any of the behaviour to which the statement is referring. The club have asked us to stop singing the song, so we should respect that. They've asked us to stop using pyrotechnics, so we should respect that too. We. Not them, we.

    I'm going to make the assumption that the majority of those singing the song are young and the majority condemning them on here are older. The generation to which those fans singing the song belong are, without doubt, the most tolerant this country has ever produced in terms of attitudes towards race, gender and sexuality. I grew up through the 70s and 80s. I clearly remember the songs, chants and shouts voiced by my generation and older.

    The generation that is getting such abuse on here have to deal with a lack of decent jobs, higher education that puts them tens of thousands into debt, a social security system that is a shadow of what older generations enjoyed, a housing market so inflated many will never own their own home, social housing waiting lists so long they may die first, an ever increasing pension age and the very real possibility that the state pension will have been abolished by the time they reach it. 73% of people aged 18-24 who voted in the referendum voted to remain in Europe, but they're being dragged out of it by generations who enjoyed all the benefits that they don't and will now be able to take even more away.

    They're now being told they're racists by a generation of racists brought up on Love Thy Neighbour, Mind Your Language and books about Little Black Sambo. They're told not to use pyro by a club that took a bus through the town lighting exactly the same devices in celebration. For singing that one of their heroes has a big dick they're called every name under the sun and told that castration is too good for them.I don't like the song but I know which I find more distasteful.

    Are they pissed off? I would think so. Do they trust anyone from the older generation? I wouldn't. The behaviour is a problem, I'm not disputing that. But this approach aint going to work.
     
  5. wak

    wakeyred Well-Known Member

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    Good, zero tolerance for moronic behaviour.
     
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  6. wak

    wakeyred Well-Known Member

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    You’ve had a shocker here.
     
  7. fir

    fired Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Quote
    I'm going to make the assumption that the majority of those singing the song are young and the majority condemning them on here are older. The generation to which those fans singing the song belong are, without doubt, the most tolerant this country has ever produced in terms of attitudes towards race, gender and sexuality. I grew up through the 70s and 80s. I clearly remember the songs, chants and shouts voiced by my generation and older.

    The generation that is getting such abuse on here have to deal with a lack of decent jobs, higher education that puts them tens of thousands into debt, a social security system that is a shadow of what older generations enjoyed, a housing market so inflated many will never own their own home, social housing waiting lists so long they may die first, an ever increasing pension age and the very real possibility that the state pension will have been abolished by the time they reach it. 73% of people aged 18-24 who voted in the referendum voted to remain in Europe, but they're being dragged out of it by generations who enjoyed all the benefits that they don't and will now be able to take even more away.

    They're now being told they're racists by a generation of racists brought up on Love Thy Neighbour, Mind Your Language and books about Little Black Sambo. They're told not to use pyro by a club that took a bus through the town lighting exactly the same devices in celebration. For singing that one of their heroes has a big dick they're called every name under the sun and told that castration is too good for them.I don't like the song but I know which I find more distasteful.

    Are they pissed off? I would think so. Do they trust anyone from the older generation? I wouldn't. The behaviour is a problem, I'm not disputing that. But this approach aint going to work.[/QUOTE]


    Sorry, I can't agree with this. My daughter is of this generation you say is aggrieved. She isn't going to sing this song. She isn't going to hide behind excuses that her generation is somehow wronged. In my world, we pull people up for misbehaviour. We don't make excuses for it. The rebels are being asked not to misbehave because it offends people, and because it will gets the club into trouble. That should be the end of the matter. What approach do you think would work?
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  8. MappRed

    MappRed Well-Known Member

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    Absolute horror show.
     
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  9. Sam

    SambaTyke Well-Known Member

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    Come again :D?
     
  10. red

    redrum Well-Known Member

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    No denying its distasteful I take my kids to the games as I'm sure many do and to be singing about a blokes **** being massive infront of children 5 and up is inappropriate and we are a family club. The club has asked us to stop and we should respect that.
    Rasict? Nah not in my book like I said if the chant was about bahre stealing your deck chairs on holiday or pinnilos eating frogs legs would kick it out be as bothered??
     
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  11. exiled

    exiled Well-Known Member

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    Well I don't do Facebook, but cos of what I've seen on here, got the Mrs to search it, unlike on here where most are anonymous behind a login name, the muppets on there are spouting their ignorant prejudice in their actual name. Mind blown.
    The football stadium is private property and the club allow the public in under certain T&C's, if they decide not to let certain individuals in, no reason even needs to be given.
    So if the club are genuine in wanting to take action it's there on their feed, it should be a simple job to ban a few, without any recourse. It's fair enough appealing to the fan base, but enough is enough, need to see action from the club on this and the evidence is on CCTV and social media to enable them to do it.
     
  12. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    I'd recommend staying off Facebook. Made the mistake of trying to talk sense on there earlier and was hounded off. Not worth the time or the effort, but gives you good insight in to how some fans think and why this is a problem
     
  13. fir

    fired Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    There must be 20 or 30 names straight away for the club to look at on Facebook and Twitter. I'm not talking about the ones who are trying (badly) to be funny, I'm talking about the "we'll do what the f#ck we like" brigade. No intention of showing any consideration for their fellow fans, or for what the club has requested. plus the ones on video seen having a go at stewards,
     
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  14. exiled

    exiled Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry, survived my 50 years without it, no intention of starting now. :eek:
     
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  15. churtonred

    churtonred Well-Known Member

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    There is a case for discussing the use of the word racism incorrectly in certain circumstances.
    This is definitely not one of them.
     
  16. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    I'm not excusing their behaviour. I'm not excusing anything. I'm listing some of the reasons why they won't listen to the approach being taken and why it won't work.

    What approach would I take? I'd arrange a meeting with some of the players and these young fans, people of a similar age, people they respect and look up to. Not club officials, players. And I'd ask those players to first listen and then explain why they don't believe the behaviour is appropriate.
     
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  17. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    I'd start with banning orders for the idiots letting off flares for starters. Don't think we've tried that tactic yet have we?

    Having seen those that are letting off flares and behaving like we saw at the weekend, I'm not sure there's anything political about it. They're not rejecting the voice of a different generation or fighting back against being deceived or wronged.
     
  18. Hooky feller

    Hooky feller Well-Known Member

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    Here you go
    Picked up off a NHS guidelines
    Probably 20% of the article.
    We can all offend occasionally without intent.
    I certainly didn’t think pagan could be viewed as Racist.



    Anti-Racist Language
    The following represents comments on the usage of terms by social scientists when referring to work based around ethnicity. It is by no means an exhaustive list, nor a definitive guide. As social scientists should be aware, language is not only powerful as it structures and reinforces beliefs and prejudices, but it is also dynamic. As such, it must be recognised that these and other terms will re- emerge, be revised or disappear at a faster rate than the guidelines may be published.

    African-Caribbean
    This term is gradually replacing the term Afro-Caribbean to refer to Caribbean peoples and those of Caribbean origin who are of African descent. It should also be noted that there is now some evidence to suggest that the term should not be hyphenated and that indeed, the differences between such groups may mean the terms should be kept separate.

    Afro-Caribbean
    In Britain, this is a term often used by black West Indians. It is a term associated with a commitment to anti-racism. Afro/Caribbean is preferred to Afro-Caribbeanism

    Asian
    Refers to people from the Asian sub-continent – namely India, Pakistan, Bangladesh and Kashmir, often as ethnic minorities in Britain. However, under some circumstances there may be objections to bracketing together a wide variety of different cultural and ethnic groups with very different positions within British society. Also, some members of particular ethnic groups may object to being referred to by their ‘country of origin’ when they have been living for several generations in Britain.

    Black
    This term is often used to refer to a variety of non-white groups. The term has taken on more political connotations with the rise of black activism in the USA since the 1960’s and now its usage implies solidarity against racism. The idea of ‘black’ has thus been reclaimed as a source of pride and identity.

    To accept this means that we should be sensitive to the many negative connotations relating to the word ‘black’ in the English language (black leg, black- list etc).
    Some Asians in Britain object to the use of the word ‘black’ being applied to them and some would argue that it also confused a number of ethnic groups which should be treated separately – Pakistani’s, Bangladeshi’s, Indian’s and so on.
    Whilst there are many differences between and within each of the groups, the inclusive term black refers to those who have a shared history of European colonialism, neo-colonialism, imperialism, ethnocentrism and racism. One solution to this is to refer to “black peoples”, “black communities” etc in the plural to imply that there is a variety of such groups.
    Black is a concept that embraces people who experience structural and institutional discrimination because of their skin colour and is often used politically to refer to people of African, Caribbean and South Asian origin.
    It is also important to be aware of the fact that in some contexts “black” can also be used in a racist sense. The capitalisation of the letter “B” in the term “Black British”, “British Asian” are shifting ground and it should be stressed that there is a need to be very clear that the use of these terms does not prioritise nor indeed conflate ethnicity and citizenship.

    British
    Many would argue that one way to denote minority ethnics in this country would be to describe them as ‘British Asians’, ‘Chinese British’ etc. One advantage is that by referring to two ethnicity’s it avoids any suggestion that a person has to choose between them for their identity. However, the idea of ‘British’ also implies a false sense of unity. Many Scots, Welsh and Irish resist being identified as British and the territory denoted by the term contains a wide variety of cultures, languages and religions.

    Classifications
    The Commission for Racial Equality have produced a list of ‘ethnic classifications’ for the use of employers and other collecting information for the purpose of Equal Opportunities policies and this is compatible with that used for the 1991 Census. However, they recognise that no single classification system will be relevant to all contexts. The general classification list is as follows:
    White
    Black – Caribbean
    Black – African
    Black – Other (please specify) Indian
    Pakistani
    Bangladeshi
    Chinese
    Other (please describe)
    These classifications are a confused mixture of skin colour and geographic regions designation. Many people living in particular geographic regions not having the designated skin colour (ie Black or White) are excluded or have to locate themselves in the Other category or the region of their ethnic descent.
    There are also real issues with the lack of definition over the term “white”, which clearly needs to be expanded and also made clear that there are problems when accounting for people of mixed heritage and the “other” category becomes an amalgam of people who do not feel they fit anywhere.

    Coloured
    At one time this was considered an acceptable term to use in the USA. However, since the 1960’s and the rise of black activism in the USA, this term is seen as offensive to many black people. This term is regarded as outdated in the UK and should be avoided as it is generally viewed as offensive to many black people. When applied to South Africa, the term reflects issues of ethnic divide and apartheid, and needs to be contextualised and used with specificity.
    In the United States of America, the term “people of colour” is often used as a form of self-reference for people who suffer from racism and discrimination on the basis of visible skin colour difference to the white Anglo-Saxon (WASP) political majority population.
    Developing Nations
    This is another term used to refer to Third World or Southern countries. However, it can be seen as prejudicial since there is an implicit comparison with ‘developed’ countries.

    Ethnic
    Refers to cultural groups of various kinds. Although it is often erroneously used to refer to Black communities only, all people have ethnicity so that white people are also part of particular ethnic groups. To avoid this confusion, it is best to spell out the relevant ethnic groups explicitly, where this is appropriate depends upon the context.
    The extent to which a classification of different ethnic groups is appropriate depends upon the context. In some London boroughs for example, it may be more appropriate to distinguish a number of distinct ethnic groups whereas in other area of Britain this may not be so appropriate. (See also the discussion under ‘minorities’).

    Ethnocentric
    This means a tendency to perceive the world from the point of view of ones own culture. Ethnocentrism can lead to racism when applied to issues of race.


    Indian
    In the US context this word is often used to refer to indigenous Americans. However, the term is associated with racism.

    Minority Ethnic
    Minority ethnic is preferred to ethnic minority as everyone belongs to an ethnic group. Minority ethnic places the emphasis on the minority status rather than the ethnicity whereas ethnic minority places the emphasis on the minority status of the group.
    Mixed-Cultural
    This is thought by some to be a neutral way of describing the variety of ethnic cultures and peoples in Britain. However, others object to this term on the grounds that it assumes that they are all equal rather than that some are dominated by the racism of others.


    Multi-Cultural
    This is thought by some to be a neutral way of describing the variety of ethnic cultures and peoples in Britain. However, others object to this term on the grounds that it assumes that they are all equal rather than that some are dominated by the racism of others

    Non White
    This may be acceptable where one wishes to refer to, say whites and non-whites. However, continual reference to non-whites could be perceived as racist.
    With frequent allusion it would therefore be better to use terms like black peoples, British Asians etc since some black groups would rather be identified in their own right than by reference to whites.

    Pagan
    A rather derogatory term used to describe the beliefs and religion of non- Christian peoples. The term has racist overtones.

    Race
    Originally associated with social Darwinism & eugenics and therefore highly pejorative. In a biological sense the word is unhelpful since it does not describe the variety of ethnic groups which sociologists would normally wish to identify. Some have felt that it is necessary to put the word into inverted commas in order to make it clear that these are social distinctions being referred to rather than biological ones and in order to distance themselves from the original meaning of the term.
    In the nineteenth century, the concept of “race” was used to argue that there were distinct physical and genetic differences between groups that constituted humankind. It was suggested that these “fixed” biological “differences” were “natural” and evident in skin colour, head shape, facial features, hair type and physique. This led scientists to assert that there was a racial typology with a hierarchy of “races”, and that certain “races” were innately superior to others
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019
  19. fir

    fired Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    I think the main reason they won’t listen is none of those reasons, it’s bad manners, and ignorance.

    I'm definitely not “down” on that age group. i just don’t like bad standards. There are ways to behave. Maybe it needs to be taught but there are no social excuses for bad manners, being inconsiderate, or rebellious.

    Maybe your tactic would work, I don’t know. I’m not convinced we should be offering “meet the player rewards” to young lads or lasses who think it’s ok to rip seats up, sing songs they have been asked not to sing, stand up obscuring views of fellow fans or letting of flares. I’d sooner the club operate a zero tolerance policy and weed them out.
     
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  20. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    It's not a reward, it's a discussion between a large part of our fan base and the professionals who many of them idolise and would be willing to listen to, in an attempt solve a very real problem that I don't believe is going away and could very well get worse with how we've chosen to handle it.
     
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