Crowd behaviour at football - when did things change?

I'll tell you what's changed it all I.M.O. One thing & one thing only..............The internet.

 

[QUOTE="churtonred, post:
How come I got the **** kicked out of me by about 6 Tottenham fans outside White Hart Lane after the Enfield game then BECAUSE I was wearing a scarf and they wanted it then nudger?
Honour among hoolis? Unwritten codes? My arse.

I’m not surprised Churtonred - they probably recognised you.

 

Yep, they were intent on doing harm that night it seems. For some reason I will never fathom I wouldn't let go of the scarf. It was only because my mate ran back and swung a few punches that we were able to break free and leg it.
We're still paying the price today (literally) for the hooligan scum that crippled the game back in the 70s and 80s.

 

You really are pathetic. How you've the nerve to come on here and brag about being a hooligan is beyond me.

 

Oh & I forgot that dead bitch, Thatcher.

 

What a load of tosh. Hooligans not wearing colours was so that they remained undetected. They could then pick on any innocent victim strolling past wearing a scarf. If they were alone all the easier to punch and nick their scarf as a trophy. Me and my mate were victims of this in Leeds train station when I was about 13. Never wore colours to an away match since apart from Wembley/Millennium Stadium

 

I attend away games without colours to avoid detection by police. I also attend away matches on my own to be able to drink where I want without being herded to the ground or **** hole boozers near the ground.

I've never had an ounce of trouble. Keep myself to myself. Some people on this thread have been unlucky to be victims of football violence. However, in the main if you go looking for it you'll get it.

Let's face it. It isn't hard to find.

 

Seriously? Unless you are wanted by her majesty’s finest why would anyone ever think about the need to remain undetected by the police!

 

So I'm not ushered straight to the ground and I can drink where I want.

 

Agreed in the main. I was naïve that one night in wearing my scarf outside the ground. It's the only time I've been involved in anything like it in all my time at football.
I have been shoved around and insulted by police just for being part of an away following at times, thanks once again to the hooligans getting us all tarred with the same brush.
The overwhelming majority in the 70s and 80s had absolutely no desire to get involved in hooliganism and avoided it. There was always the chance, nevertheless, that you could be targeted if the morons weren't sure who you were. After the play off final against Millwall I had to walk all the way through the streets round the Millwall end of the ground to get to my car. I was aware that I was isolated and had an accent that certainly wasn't from London. There was no problem. On another day..who knows?

 

I’ve never really thought about it nowadays to be fair, away local derbies aside where it might be wise to avoid certain places anyway of course. I would imagine if you arrive by coach you are usually corralled by the police either I to the ground or to one specific place, but as I tend to get the train or drive it’s a free for all.

 

The first time I saw any hooliganism was during the 1-1 draw with Aston Villa, September 1970. There were quite a number of Villa fans in the Ponty End and it suddenly all kicked off. From then on, it seemed to crop up, irrespective of the opposition. However, the worst of the lot was always Bradford City. Fighting on the terracing, on the streets, culminating in September 1976 with a police horse being blinded by some **** throwing a brick at it. This wasn't a glorious time, with 'honour' amongst the hooligans, like knights contesting in a jousting competition. That is pure fantasy.

 

So, over the last few years we've seen an increase in bad behaviour at football (racist chanting back, smoke bombs, etc), an increase in intolerance generally in society and racist incidents. Inciting and sensational headlines in newspapers and a decrease in the police presence across the country. Must be a Tory government.

 

Football Violence is much older than you think!

Early history[edit]
The first instance of football violence is unknown, but the phenomenon can be traced back to 14th-century England. In 1314, Edward II banned football (at that time, a violent, unruly activity involving rival villages kicking a pig's bladder across the local heath) because he believed the disorder surrounding matches might lead to social unrest, or even treason.[8] According to a University of Liverpool academic paper, conflict at an 1846 match in Derby, England, required a reading of the "riot act" and two groups of dragoons to effectively respond to the disorderly crowd. This same paper also identified "pitch invasions" as a common occurrence during the 1880s in English football.[9]

The first recorded instances of football hooliganism in the modern game allegedly occurred during the 1880s in England, a period when gangs of supporters would intimidate neighbourhoods, in addition to attacking referees, opposing supporters and players. In 1885, after Preston North End beat Aston Villa 5–0 in a friendly match, both teams were pelted with stones, attacked with sticks, punched, kicked and spat at. One Preston player was beaten so severely that he lost consciousness and press reports at the time described the fans as "howling roughs".[8] The following year, Preston fans fought Queen's Park fans in a railway station—the first alleged instance of football hooliganism outside of a match. In 1905, a number of Preston fans were tried for hooliganism, including a "drunk and disorderly" 70-year-old woman, following their match against Blackburn Rovers.[8]

Although instances of football crowd violence and disorder have been a feature of association football throughout its history[10] (e.g. Millwall's ground was reportedly closed in 1920, 1934 and 1950 after crowd disturbances), the phenomenon only started to gain the media's attention in the late 1950s due to the re-emergence of violence in Latin American football. In the 1955–56 English football season, Liverpool and Everton fans were involved in a number of incidents and, by the 1960s, an average of 25 hooligan incidents were being reported each year in England. The label "football hooliganism" first began to appear in the English media in the mid-1960s,[11] leading to increased media interest in, and reporting of, acts of disorder. It has been argued that this in turn created a 'moral panic' out of proportion with the scale of the actual problem.[12]

 

There is a paragraph in Grenville Firth’s history of BFC in which Ardsley United hosted Barnsley St Peters in a match in which the two were battling for being the top side in Barnsley
Ardsley were the more accepted top team at the time .
After the match which I think St Peters won there was recorded violence all along Doncaster Road from Stairfoot to Measbrough Dyke with quite a few arrests .
I think this was in the early 1890s and there is a few other games recorded involving either clubs with crowd trouble.

 

I would argue that is not the case...that is if you're referring to the use of fences to pen fans in as treating them like animals...as I remember it the threat of violence only started in the very late 1960's...mushroomed in the 1970's and 80's , and with it came fences at some grounds, more in the 80's if I remember rightly. Fences were a relatively short lived fix, the real change came when Thatcher made it a police priority with undercover cops infiltrating the various crews and initiating banning orders that kept hooligans away from matches.

 

As many have already stated, I don’t think it’s football hooliganism as we knew it back in the 70s and 80s that’s returned at all. It’s just anti social behaviour fuelled by the want of a bit of notoriety on social media.
Back in the 70s and 80s it could be a frightening experience travelling to away games and even some at home too. Trouble could and did flare up almost anywhere. If you were in the wrong place at the wrong time you could end up with a hiding (as I once did) whether you were looking for trouble or not.

 

Only time I've ever been fearful for my safety was Sheffield Utd away during 2014/15 season. Me and our lass went to Bankers Draught for a drink and sumat to eat after match. It was about 7pm well after match had finished. This bloke came up to our table and said,"good win for you that". We tried to make out that we didn't know what he was talking about but it was our cue to leave.

So there are genuine nut jobs about but in that instance there was an easy out. Granted when a gang set on upon you there isn't.

Back onto topic. I think it's definitely this last few years that the teeny boppers want a bit of notoriety.

 

I'd go further and suggest this trend isn't confined to just football I think it's a society wide thing now that people are nastier and it's only going to get worse....