Crowd behaviour at football - when did things change?

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Metatarsal, Aug 12, 2019.

  1. churtonred

    churtonred Well-Known Member

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    The internet isn't helping by amplifying the views of some of these numbskulls. I checked out the BFC facebook page yesterday (I hate facebook and twitter). It was littered with stupid comments that don't reflect well on the club and its fans.
    If there is an absolute necessity that the club have facebook and twitter platforms would it be possible for the reply or comment facility to be removed? There's fan engagement evenings where these idiots can have the opportunity to stand up and air their retarded views should they have the nerve to do so at first hand.
     
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  2. Dalestykes

    Dalestykes Well-Known Member

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    How come I got the **** kicked out of me by about 6 Tottenham fans outside White Hart Lane after the Enfield game then BECAUSE I was wearing a scarf and they wanted it then nudger?
    Honour among hoolis? Unwritten codes? My arse.[/QUOTE]

    That was a very scary night!
     
  3. Dalestykes

    Dalestykes Well-Known Member

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    Christ! Bradford City. Absolute nutters. “You’re gonna get what Bradford City got” was the chant from Barnsley fans for a couple of season’s afterwards. Always thought that was an odd chant because all they got was a draw.
     
  4. Dalestykes

    Dalestykes Well-Known Member

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    Always known for their ‘Crew’ were Ardsley!
     
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  5. Dalestykes

    Dalestykes Well-Known Member

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    Just a bit surprised by the comments on this thread re our younger supporters. I go home and away and generally if it ‘kicks off’ at away games its been my experience that it’s usually the older generation that are at the forefront. Blokes in their forties and fifties.
    Illustrated comically at Bristol Rovets last season when a couple of wannabes from Rovers we’re having a right pop at a couple of our young fans who were making it very obvious they weren’t interested. It didn’t stop about 20 pissed up Middle Aged blokes charging down the road and weighing in with ‘come on then, if you want some.’
    A particularly bizarre sight as about half were in fancy dress and the other half had the combined weight of the Titanic - after she’d taken water onboard. They were only two fried eggs away from a serious coronary.
     
  6. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    It’s a good job Kendray weren’t built otherwise it would have been a bloodbath :D
     
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  7. Birkdale Red

    Birkdale Red Well-Known Member

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    My thoughts are that I am soft. I have had a fascination with hooliganism, firms, ''culture' etc for donkeys years, but not because I have partaken in it, nor glorified it a la Young Nudger. I'm genuinely just not a tough guy. I'm a lover, not a fighter. Or rather ....... when it comes to fighting, I'm a bloody good runner. :)

    It goes back to the very early 70's for me, and football violence was just another outlet for some of my peers. Most of them had picked it up from their older brothers, but yes, it found it's way into the school playground. I grew up in Bradford. You were either Leeds or City, and even though they were poles apart it was pretty toxic between them. But it wasn't just football; there was mods v rockers. Teddy Boys v Skinheads. All snarling nastiness. Some of us in the playground followed Sweet, Slade, Alvin Stardust etc ...... all moody, tough looking, long hair with a bit of attitude. Then there were the nicer lot ....... Bay City Rollers, David Cassidy. The playground fights could be just as bitter between music peer groups. Then there was the issue of where you lived. Nice part, or were you one of the estate kids? And the inter-estate violence was probably worse than anything footy related in the early 70's ....... where I lived some of the battles between the Scholemoor lot, the Canterbury lot and the Holme Wood lot were dire. So if you take the example of three mates of mine in 1972 - Dave, Nigel and Danny .............. Dave and Danny could be knocking lumps out of Nigel over football colours. Then Dave and Nigel could be taking the same side later that day over music. The Nigel and Danny would be on the bus that night to fight Dave's lot on the other estate. Then back at school next morning they'd all be laughing and smiling in the same football team during PE. As others have said - tribalism. And it was more than just football. It was localised tribalism.

    Then in the mid-70s, my first footy games were at Valley Parade. Not regular, and I wasn't tough enough to try attend by myself. But if you remember the split-kop at VP at the time, most matches were spent dodging bricks and paving being lobbed from side to side. They did wear colours - normally a scarf tied to the wrist, bare-top when it was warm enough, with their high-waisters and Doc Martens on. Danny and Nigel evolved in the 80's from playground / street fights to their crews. One with the City Ointment and one with the Leeds Service Crew. The odd match I attended at Elland Rd were awful. I saw a gang of older guys batter a young Liverpool fan. I saw all sorts of crap that made me never want me to have anything to do with Leeds.

    Danny was hardcore. He was locked up weekly from the age of 14. We were best mates, until Barnsley v Leeds. I stayed the same, he turned into a monster for the weekend - a stranger who my innocence didn't recognise. He was genuinely a tough guy from a very young age. He was bright, intelligent came from a big family of brothers. Great footballer and hard as nails. But Service Crew consumed him. And of course we were in the early 80's now - the Mods, Rockers, Estate lads were showing signs of mobility. Why go to another part of Bradford for a scrap on an estate when you could join forces and go to Leeds for a scrap? Or Manchester, or Liverpool ...... or beyond? And football was the common ground for this outpouring of tribalism. But not for me. I was still soft. Protecting my pretty face was my sole aim on a weekend. I'd run from football fights, I'd run from pub fights. I just didn't want to fight. I liked people too much. Especially friends. But often strangers.

    By the late-70's I'd found someone to go to football with Someone I respected. And he was a Barnsley fan. Hence my support. I saw some real violence at times - often at Oakwell (corner of Ponty and West) but especially away at the likes of Huddersfield, Middlesboro, Liverpool and Sheffield. I was punched by Leeds fans at Leeds station for having what they thought was a Liverpool scarf on. I thought I'd be safe telling them I was a fan of little old Barnsley - it mattered not, they all joined in. Did I fight back? No. I just don't have a fighting bone in my body. Am I ashamed of that? Yes, to a degree. I never toughened up. Then came the miners strike. I was almost a young man, and it was a complex time where going to Barnsley on the bus meant I was going to encounter violence at some point during the day. Someone above mentioned burly miners, always being around to see off any trouble. Now they were at the centre of it; not their fault - in town, outside the stadium, inside the stadium, and of course the likes of Millwall and Chelsea would come up from the South and inflame things. A mate started playing for the reds and I ended up with a season ticket in the West Upper. Got caught in bad violence when big crowds from Middlesboro, Newcastle and Leeds came. One game against Leeds I spent ducking coins and bricks being thrown between lower and upper West and it was just a normal week. The 80's were dire, basically, but it was all the fruits of the 70's battles coming together under the 'footy culture' banner of the 80's. Fans were treated like ****, we were all, rightly or wrongly, tarred with the same brush.

    And then it went. Soft lad here met a girl (at last) and by the time 1990 came around I think it was dying down. A lot of that due to a bit of mutual respect post-Hillsboro / Valley Parade, then by the time Euro 96 came around, rival fans were almost friends with each other. Building a home and getting married, coupled with the fact Barnsley were mostly crap early 90's ....... I didn't go as much. When I did ........ meh. Then for the last 15 years or so I have been going with the lad. Mostly enjoyable times. Plenty of away games, avoiding trouble and supping with away fans, taking it all in and enjoying some great times. Same at home - we like the Dove cos there is generally a bit of banter. But what I will say is this last couple of seasons, that underbelly of nastiness is brewing again. The atmosphere away at times has been festering and sadly a lot of the time it is the younger Barnsley lot feeding that. Most away fans fine ...... but it's there, lingering at the back. Likewise at home. Most fans in the Dove have been great, but then Bolton came 18 months ago and it was like 1984 revisited. And over the last few months coke-heads on either side seem to want to meet there. Not always, but it is festering and I hope it does not spoil my favourite pre-game boozer bar none.

    So yes, I think we are in for a funny old season. I predict a few 'offs' at a few grounds around the country. The mainstream media will feed off that, and the more it is reported, the more it is likely to be replicated. And sadly I anticipate a few home games where 'that corner' of the Ponty is going to get increasingly more out-of-hand and with it the out-of-stadium experience will suffer too. These lads causing it are like the lost boys - they only want to impress each other, they only want to be seen to be misbehaving and point-scoring, and more than a few of them want their minutes of fame on social media.

    And I'll finish by going back to the OP - where did it start? A wise man mentioned recently something along the lines of "sons of battle-hardened soldiers from the early 19th century went on to fight in the Boer Wars. Their sons were fighting men in WW1. In turn their sons fought in WW2. Generations of fighting men then led to young men of the early 70's having no true battles to fight. So they took it to the streets and to the football stadium, whilst the real men; the real fighters sorted lesser scale wars in Northern Ireland etc". . . . . . And now the sons of the street fighters and the firms of the 70's and 80's are looking to their own fathers, and their own empty lives and for something to fill them with. And once again the football ground is becoming the focal point.



    And what a bloody ramble that was.
     
  8. Tarntyke

    Tarntyke Well-Known Member

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    There was a scramble to try to be the worst.
    Millwall are still living that - hence - no one likes us we don’t care.
    Every club was trying to be worse than the other.
    If the club got a mention in the newspaper or better still on the tele then that was great - a talking point for a long time.

    As for colours - I have found it the total opposite.
    There are a few unwritten rules amongst hoolis - they don’t wear colours and they don’t hassle anyone wearing colours.
    That’s why you will find guys of a certain age - and even younger guys involved now - would not be seen dead in colours.
    There was a trend for a long time - I don’t know whether it is so prevalent these days - to look smart and wear the expensive gear.[/QUOTE]
    There were no unwritten rules in the 70s and early 80s it was all spontaneous. The ‘Pringle boys’ brought about the ‘fashion era’ of hooligans but it was the advent of the internet and mobiles that the opposing sides were able to meet, or not as the case often was.
     
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  9. wak

    wakeyred Well-Known Member

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    I have witnessed embarrassing behaviour back in 96? Notts county away? Smashing seats trying to fight with random people on the streets, complete shower of sh@te. Bad behaviour on both sides and Grimsby around the same time, manure away in the cup a couple of years later - complete melts on a bus trying to fight me - I showed my Brazil shirt and I swear the Barnsley fans thought it was some kind of gauntlet to fight me, really bizarre.
    As a result I never go with the crowds so haven’t seen much trouble since then when I’ve been away. Went to Bradford last season and fans mingled really well, great atmosphere, never felt any trouble brewing. I think it’s certain games which bring out the knuckle draggers in enough numbers for it to be really noticeable.
     
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  10. North Yorks Red

    North Yorks Red Well-Known Member

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    We got one of the weirdest threats ever at County , they came up to us and said the Forest fans are going to get you!
     
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