Responsibilities of an MP

I voted remain and still think remaining fully in Europe is the right thing to do, however, as the bitterness and infighting has gone on these last three years, I think you are right that we have to leave but in a way that does not wreck the economy. A no deal exit would leave our grand kids to pick up the tab for the rest of their lives.

 

Spot on, the only people complaining about Europe were Daily Mail readers.....

 

You remember a Norway style deal mentioned dek but you’ve no recollection of any easy deals trade or otherwise according to another thread

Many remain voters would probably accept a Norway situation. I think it’s your side you’ve got to convince

 

where have i said it would be easy? i'm merely pointing out that imo a compromise is the only way forward, and yes you are right i've no recollection of any 'easy' trade deals because there hasnt been anything so far

 

i agree pal but negotiation is the only way this is going to get sorted

 

Selective memory dek or confirmation bias. You decide.

 

sorry dont agree bud, if the country hadnt been divided then the result would have been in the form of a big majority for either leave or remain, a split virtually down the middle shows a huge division.
I also think that the continual rise of right of centre politics not only here but in other EU countries also just reinforces my view.

no need to be sorry bud, we all have our opinions as to why society is broken and i lay the blame with world capitalism , ie not just here but throughout the world and in particular the eu, many refuse to accept that the EU has a role to play in this but austerity has been a EU wide policy.

https://www.europeaninstitute.org/i...cial-reform/1180-austerity-measures-in-the-eu

in the above article you will see that austerity has, in the main, been tackled with cuts to public spending as well has varied tax increases



only recently has the EU started a different approach but even this is full of criticism,https://www.ft.com/content/eb58c17a-2bb4-11e9-a5ab-ff8ef2b976c7

no doubt some will see the following article as anti EU rhetoric but imo this also illustrates the failed austerity programme

https://www.spiked-online.com/2019/02/04/the-hypocrisy-of-anti-austerity-remainers/

 

neither , you show me where i've said owt would be easy

 

That’s not the point or what I said. You claimed never to have heard or seen anything about an easy trade deal and also claimed you’d seen and heard about the Norway deal being a solution.

The two aren’t mutually exclusive of course but it’s pretty far fetched to say you’d seen one but not the other.

 

You've missed my point. People might have had views about the EU in the past, but how many threads were there on here where people argued about the EU to the point of abuse? None. How many heated arguments in workplaces? None. How many friends and family refusing to speak to each other again because of their EU stance? None.

Yes, the vote was split, but the levels of animosity shown by remainers and leavers didn't exist until the referendum. Not in my world at any rate. Your mileage may vary.

That's what I meant by division.

 

its not far fetched at all and i'll say once again i've never heard anybody say anything would be easy

during the referendum campaign i heard various trade agreements being mentioned, wto, norway, canada, and all i'm saying now is that some kind of compromise will have to be put forward, i dont profess to know how these work but if a compromise works then so be it, its got to be better than whats happening at the moment

there will be folk on both sides of the debate that dont want a compromise , instead they'll just demand a solution that suits their own vision/ideals

 

i think the divisions were there before the referendum , you dont, so we'll leave it at that bud

 

not trying to be argumentative here. I think there were deep divisions in society before the referendum but I think they centred around a strong antagonism to politicians, the elite etc on the back of the crash and austerity.
I think that collapse in respect for the elected politicians in Westminster had a big influence on 2016 with the Leave vote benefiting from a two fingers up to the rulers sentiment.

 

The split down the middle happened as a result of the campaign.

So many Leave voters were part of the vocal minority they can't see the success of the Leave campaign* (it ought to be obvious - but if your minds already made up, the campaign wasn't aimed at you and obviously it never affected you).

But there's never been such a huge swing vote to fight for; firstly the messaging was so much easier for Leave - add in an additional campaign running alongside the official one (how was that even allowed**), the most effective use of digital media in any election campaign ever (including some illegal practices) and you've achieved something like 25% before the referendum was announced turning into 52% on the day.

*The number of grown adults who claim to have never been influenced by any advertising or political campaigning is staggering - it's amazing the advertising industry is the size it is considering it's completely pointless according to many

**The second campaign could well be the Achilles heel for the Remain argument. It allowed the official Leave campaign to keep the simple message about taking back control, whilst allowing Farage and Banks to do the dirty work with immigration, Turkey etc.

 

I don't think that OG is saying there weren't any divisions but that they weren't at the foremost of most peoples minds. It's the referendum that as created the animosity we see today. This referendum produced 17.4 million leave votes, 16.1 million Remain votes and 13 million abstention or invalid votes (almost a 3 way split of 46.5 million voters). All referenda are deemed as advisory only and are meant to determine the voting public mood on a particular issue and here I see 37% leave, 34% Remain and 29% indifferent. Some people see that as a mandate to invoke article 50 but I don't. There is not enough clear water between all factions to make it work. The abstentions (indifferent) are crucial in the decision making and a decision has to be in the nations best interest. We could have a referendum at Oakwell to reduce the match price to £1 and if it produced the same result do you think they would automatically comply just because the CEO had stated he would honour the result. In some forms of democracy to win you would have to gain more that half of all available votes, not just one more than those who come second. Regardless of individual views, Democracy is the loser here and you can only put the blame at one door and its not the voters.

 

Largely speaking, wealthier areas voted remain and poorer areas. leave. I suppose the wealthier areas have more to lose in theory & the leave areas (wrongly in my opinion) thought that they might gain. Pretty simplistic, but there must be some truth in it. In reality I personally think everyone will lose out economically to some extent, and poorer areas in the north may lose the most, particularly if there is a Brexit Party / hard right Tory government returned at the next election.

 

i also think the collapse in respect for politicians isnt limited to just westminster and this country because in my experience its something that is worldwide nevermind just UK OR EU wide,Austerity has been a EU wide programme, with much of public spending being cut as this seems to be how practically all the various member states have tackled the financial meltdown, cuts to public spending and tax hikes have been implemented throughout most of the eu member states

https://www.europeaninstitute.org/i...cial-reform/1180-austerity-measures-in-the-eu

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/10162176