Operation Yellow Hammer

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Marlon, Sep 11, 2019.

  1. Trickster Two Six

    Trickster Two Six Well-Known Member

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    Donny, not sure what you're missing but I’ll try again so here goes. The points I made about immigration and eu law taking precedent over ours are interlinked here. We are forced to abide by eu laws. To prove the point i offered freedom of movement as an example. Anyone from the eu has the right to come here to work and is entitled to benefits and welfare rights. So Donny, dead easy- we are bound by eu laws, I object to this. We cant control immigration because the eu laws we have to abide by gives any eu citizen the right to come here and have equal access to welfare and benefits. I don't like that either. Now, this doesn't mean that i object to all immigration, its uncontrolled immigration and the strain that puts on our infrastructure, welfare state and labour market that i object to as it directly effects the very people who have been traditional labour voters. As for pigeon chess, it worked for Trump and its working for me, frustrating your game by not playing the game at all is obviously winding you off the clock hence all your insults. Do carry on.
     
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  2. Stephen Dawson

    Stephen Dawson Well-Known Member

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    Both sides have lied about Brexit. I voted leave and stand by that decision. Likewise I may have voted remain had certain information been available at the time. That said Yellow Hammer was a projection it isn't actual evidence.

    I voted leave because I don't want Britain to be governed by the EU and our politicians to be nothing more than elected puppets. There might be hardships along the way but at the end of the day those are my beliefs.

    Whats saying in a few years time should we remain the EU get tougher on the U.K what then?
     
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  3. Don

    Donny-Red Well-Known Member

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    It doesn’t
    And that’s exactly the point made by many people.
    You’ve misinterpreted or misrepresented what you read.

    I’ll say it again. I wouldn’t describe myself as an ‘expert’ because I don’t write the laws. But I did train people how to implement those laws.

    And there’s no automatic rights to benefits because of the EU. (The webpage you quoted included a vague ‘entitled to some welfare benefits’ which is purposely vague as different countries have different laws)

    The old JSA rules allowed people to come and claim as ‘jobseekers’ for a limited time. The new UC law won’t pay people until after they’ve worked, and then the time they can claim and circumstances they can claim are more limited.

    That law change is perfectly allowed within the EU and you’ll find different benefit rules across the EU; so the EU law isn’t as prescriptive as you believe.

    And BTW the UK rules are the same whether you were born in Poland India or Australia.

    Again; pretend you know about this stuff all you like but just like your understanding of the Guildford 4, you don’t understand the law. And reading right wing websites for ‘evidence’ isn’t helping you.
     
    Last edited: Sep 13, 2019
  4. Terry Nutkins

    Terry Nutkins Well-Known Member

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    And herein lies the problem. People commenting who know absolutely nothing about history or socialism.

    The Nazi party weren’t socialists. The were far right extremest fascists.

    They used the word socialist to make them appeal the masses. They couldn’t be further from socialism if they tried. To the left of Socialism stands communism. Hitler hated communism and this is one of the reasons they set off across the eastern front to take on Russia.

    The Nazi’s were the opposite side of the spectrum. This is all easily available to read up on the internet.
     
  5. Stephen Dawson

    Stephen Dawson Well-Known Member

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    Communism is over rated.
     
  6. Terry Nutkins

    Terry Nutkins Well-Known Member

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    I couldn’t agree more, hence the reason I don’t believe in it as a theory.
     
  7. Don

    Donny-Red Well-Known Member

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    Communism is as bad as fascism.
    Fortunately it’s all bar extinct now unlike fascism which is on the rise.
     
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  8. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    Although interestingly, many former members of the Revolutionary Communist Party are MEPs or PPCs for the Brexit Party.
     
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  9. Trickster Two Six

    Trickster Two Six Well-Known Member

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    Someone should tell Corbyn
     
  10. Don

    Donny-Red Well-Known Member

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    Your understanding of communism is right up there with your knowledge of benefit law. :)

    For the record I’m no fan of Corbyn, he’s a terrible leader, but it takes a special kind of ignorant to swallow the smear campaign.
     
  11. Cam

    Cambridge Red Well-Known Member

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    Not sure what you're trying to say here. Are you saying 'what happens if they get tougher on us once we are outside the EU' or if we were still in it.
    I would have thought that there is not a whole lot we could do about it from outside. From inside I guess we could have some influence. Being one of the major players/influencers in the EU we do have a large amount of sway & input.
    Depends what you mean by get tougher ... if its something within the EU's control then other than threaten (a trade war etc.) there's not a lot we can do about it. Think we would be better being at the table where we are listened to.
     
  12. Old Goat

    Old Goat Well-Known Member

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    Or as we used to say in the good old days "It says Oxo on the sides of buses, but they don't sell it." :)
     
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  13. pompey_red

    pompey_red Well-Known Member

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  14. Fon

    Fonzie Well-Known Member

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    Genuine laugh out loud post here.
     
  15. Trickster Two Six

    Trickster Two Six Well-Known Member

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    Think you need to bring yourself up to date mi owd, stop dismissing the right wing websites. EU citizens coming here to work have the same access to our benefits system and healthcare as we do, and after 3 months can claim jobseekers allowance. However, I note that you’ve glossed over the point about them having an automatic right to come here anyway, freedom of movement, enshrined in eu law which we have to abide by. Next.
     
  16. Trickster Two Six

    Trickster Two Six Well-Known Member

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    How on earth do you know what my understanding of communism is ?? And don’t swallow the momentum claim that dear leaders being vilified by the right wing press, the things he’s said and done are there for all to see. Hanas, our friends ?? Ffs Donny take off the rose coloured specs man, you’re so determined to be right all the time and in so being seem equally determined to dismiss and insult anyone whi doesn't share your view. Having said that at least we agree on corbyn as a head of labour
     
  17. Don

    Donny-Red Well-Known Member

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    There are no new claims to JSA*
    It’s not me that’s out of date - Universal Credit replaced it years ago.


    *with the exception of new style JSA Conts based which would require a very long period of work.
     
  18. Don

    Donny-Red Well-Known Member

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    If you mix up Corbyn’s socialist agenda with communism, you don’t understand communism.
    It’s quite straightforward. You don’t like something and you’re allowing the red mist of anger to override logic.
     
  19. Micky Finn

    Micky Finn Well-Known Member

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    ....and Dominic Cummings
     
  20. Cam

    Cambridge Red Well-Known Member

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    Not sure you will trust the the House of Commons Library, & I hate to bring 'facts' into the argument, but here you go
    https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/brexit/policy/how-can-eu-nationals-access-uk-benefits/

    for those that can't be ars*d to read ... NO EU migrants to not have an automatic right to benefits ... you need to acquire the 'Right to Reside'

    Taken from the same site
    How can EU nationals satisfy the ‘right to reside’ requirement?
    An EU national can satisfy the right to reside requirement in a number of ways, including as a worker, a self-employed person, a jobseeker (but only for income-based JSA, Child Benefit and Child Tax Credit), a self-sufficient student, or as a family member of a person falling into one of these categories.

    People may also satisfy the requirement if they have a ‘derivative right to reside’ – for example, as a primary carer of a child in education.

    Some people who are not ‘economically active’ will only be able to demonstrate a right to reside as a ‘self-sufficient person’. This means they must have enough resources for themselves and their family members so that they are not dependent on the benefits system.

    P.S. took about 3 mins to find that

    EU nationals can also acquire a right of permanent residence if they have resided legally in the UK for a continuous period of five years. A person is residing legally when they have a right to reside under one or more of the categories listed above (with some qualifications). Although this is not the case for someone with a derivative right to reside.

    Once a person has a permanent right of residence, they no longer have to satisfy these conditions.

    Are these rules the same for Universal Credit claimants?
    Broadly speaking, yes.
     
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