When’s the next fan meeting with Dane/ Conway?

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Nardiello, Oct 7, 2019.

  1. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    I haven't said they've taken money out of the club. I want to be absolutely clear on that.
     
  2. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it does cover it. But I think the sales we've made from players performing in league 1 more than does.
     
  3. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Never suggested you did say that. I'm suggesting that unless they do, how are they financially benefiting from a team that yoyo's between League One and the Championship?
     
  4. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    By building a healthy bank balance, and showing a market that is desperate to invest in football, particularly those with more money than sense, a club that makes a profit.

    Edit - It's a brilliant plan when you've got such a success rate as we have of turning nobodies into million pound transfers.
     
  5. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Not sure that's the main criteria for most people coming in to football to be honest. I take your point, but all pure speculation really until we see the accounts.
     
  6. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    I don't think it is either. I don't think most people who take on football clubs are nearly as astute as these are.
     
  7. Dub-Tyke

    Dub-Tyke Well-Known Member

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    I get what you’re saying, and I agree to an extent, but the business plan remains the same - they just go up one level for promotion. A lot of the squad now, wouldn’t have signed for us had we not been in the Champ. I think with time, some of the players we have will come good.

    An established Champ player attracts more value than a relegated Champ player with 1 year of poor football. That’s a fact.

    You can lose money by chasing the Championship leaders, but the club have made it clear they just want consolidation for a number of years - like Brentford and Millwall.
     
  8. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    It is mate, without question. And the ideal is they buy for cheap and that player performs in the Championship. Then we get big bucks when we sell. But they're not prepared to take the risk to spend a lot for a Championship ready player in case it doesn't work. And even if it does work the profit margins are slim because we're paying market rates to bring him in as everyone already knows about him. You buy cheap, you hope he makes it in the Championship, if he doesn't then there's next year in League 1 and if he does well you still make a profit.
     
  9. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Or alternatively, we're prepared to pay the transfer fee but as soon as you move up the levels in fees the wages end up being beyond our reach.

    Everyone has a different view, and all as valid as each other as nobody knows the truth, but if what we hear is true about missed targets (and I don't just mean the young striker from Poland) then that isn't a board that wasn't willing to invest. They just weren't willing to increase the wage bill to the levels it requires to sign these Championship ready players.
     
  10. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    It's very easy to say who you want to sign without ever signing anyone even close to that calibre.
     
  11. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    To add to that...

    I'm not really interested in multi million pound signings. That's not us. I'd like a couple of players like Steve Foster or Bobby Hassell, who wouldn't cost us a lot, who wouldn't demand high wages, who aren't ever going to play in the Premier League, but who know how to manage a game and would be invaluable to the young players in our side in guiding them through a game. But they have no resale value, so we won't entertain them, which I believe is the biggest indication of what the owners are about.
     
  12. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    Red Rain didn't post the accounts for the last few years. We've made a lot.
     
  13. Jak

    Jake The Red Banned Idiot

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    From what I've garnered of your posts in recent weeks, you are questioning the wealth of the ownership, and now suggesting they've made lots of money that's not gone into the squad. Am I right to assume you believe our ownership isn't as wealthy as reported and thus they're taking money from the club?

    Forgive me if I've got that wrong, but that's how it's coming across.
     
  14. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe the ownership are anywhere near as wealthy as what has been reported in the press. But then I can't blame the owners for those reports, they didn't write them or claim as much. However, I'm definitely not accusing them of taking money out of the club. I have absolutely no evidence that is the case. I think we've made a very healthy profit these last few years on player sales, but i believe that money is still either owed to the club in instalments or in the club's bank account. Certainly was as of the last published accounts and I'm not claiming anything is different now.
     
  15. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    Is the club technically solvent now? Can’t pay dividends if no retained profits and now a tax on dividends.... management charges to an opaque investment vehicle in Hong Kong much more likely. Should be disclosed under related party notes in next and future accounts if so.
     
  16. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    I remember from your previous posts that you're far more skilled in the business department than I am. Dividend might be the wrong choice of phrase but it's the only one I could think of that would allow them to take money out of the company.

    For the record I don't think they are. We've not invested every penny of profit back in to the club but I would hazard at guess that 80% has gone back in so far with a surplus kept for January, deliberately.
     
  17. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    They could levy management charges from their hk based investment vehicle, I suspect that’s what they’ll do rather than pay UK based taxes on profits, though Conway in particular may be subject to our domicile rules unless he is airborne at midnight after every game (a ruse I’ve seen those with private jets deploy though not sure if that loophole was finally closed)
     
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  18. Jak

    Jake The Red Banned Idiot

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    That's fair enough. I too find lack of info on these people quite strange.
     
  19. Cun

    Cunning Stunt Well-Known Member

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    The bit I don't get tho Jay is that when we got promoted the board openly said it'd create nearly 10million over the next season. That far out ways what we've made on player sales. So as the difference in monies between divisions is immense then surely as successful business men then if our recruitment means we have no resalable assets and we'll lose more if relegated than promoted then I just don't get the 'business model'... ..
     
  20. MonkeyRed

    MonkeyRed Well-Known Member

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    The thing I feel people are missing here is that the owners can be in it for the money without actually taking cash out of the club regularly. It's fairly straightforward;

    1. Buy an asset cheaply from an owner who wants to sell but is careful who he sells to.

    2. Run the company so that all that is invested is revenue from the company itself, as frugally as possible to compete so that there is a healthy bank balance of accrued funds.

    3. Sell a profitable asset with deep cash reserves on to someone else, for many times what you paid for it and make a helluva lorra money without actually taking a penny out yourself. Not really caring what the someone else's intentions are increases the chance of making a fortune as plenty of people will be interested in a sports team with cash in the bank.

    This is what they've done with Nice. Of course, it relies on the asset being at peak value before they get to step 3, which would probably mean us being sustainable and established in the Championship.

    Sadly, they've made Stendel the scapegoat for this not happening and seem to have little understanding that building everything on purchasing assets that a spreadsheet rates as good and of value is far, far from the way to do it in English football.

    So yes, they do care about league position. But also, yes, they are disrespecting us as a football club and us as passionate fans along the way by damaging what is going on on the pitch and the emotional connection to club staff and expecting us to swallow it and pay up

    Because, yes, they are in it for the money.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2019

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