The NHS is for sale

you clearly have no idea how the political processes work.

 

Clearly more than you.

In this country we have what we like to call general elections.

If any party in government sold off the nhs and made it not free at the point of use, they would attract very few votes.

That education, just for you is free my friend.

 

How could there be a forced election if the Tories have a majority under the fixed term parliament act?

And isn't the point that Johnson's entire Brexit strategy is based on trade deals with the US. Which the US would want pharma to be part of. Which we could refuse, but then their wider trade deal would be much worse. Meaning that Johnson's assumptions on the benefits of Brexit don't work. Which means He can't argue the benefits of Brexit anymore.

So he can't take anything off the table with the US. And we would have left the EU by that point so we'd be beholden to trade deal negotiations with the US.

 

They won't.

We knead two get Brecksit dun, depoart the foriegnars, mayke are own lores agane and clows the boarders. Breksit meens Bregsit.

And that - literally that - is why my Tory-hating dad is voting Conservative for the first time in his life.

 

an interesting thing is the Daily Heil web page report of this, apart from the usual talk about something else not the actual story they have moderated the comments section ( for those who dont know the DM comments page is a festering mess of toryism you've never seen the like)

why would they do that? dont want bad press? cant be seen to support the enemy even though their own side have been found to be lying again..... interesting.

 

Depends what you mean by take nothing off the table. We aren't going to cut off other cheaper for the country phama supply agreements just becuase the US demand it. I guess when the EU enter trade agreements, they start with the same stance.

I am 100% for keeping the NHS free at the point of use and for best value agreements.

Nothing has been produced to say that we would ever agree to removing either of those.

Opening up markets isn't a bad thing. More competition should drive down prices, whilst it is in our power to maintain standards.

 

But the point is the new trade deals wouldn't be negotiated in isolation. Pharma and NHS access would be part of a wider trade package, and one which we would need to get an incredible deal from the US to replicate our current EU trading status, all without any collective bargaining power.

So to get a good deal for one area of business we would need to compromise elsewhere. So if Johnson rules out NHS access he would have to compromise on other areas of the economy which the Tories have traditionally valued higher than the NHS. The net result being he can't rule out access to pharma and the NHS, and i would argue he certainly can't be trusted to prioritise that part of a wider trade agreement over others.

 

Christ, you couldn’t be further from the truth on every post you’ve made on this thread.

Its earth shatteringly worrying what you are actually arguing for, I’m actually scared that you’ve got a vote.

 

From twitter:

They sold off our water.
They sold off our energy.
They sold off our railways.
They sold off our buses.
They sold off our oil.
They sold off our gas.
They're selling off our schools.
They sold off our housing.
They sold off our land.
They sold off our forests.
They sold off our postal service.
They sold off our coal.
They sold off our steel.

And they won't bat an eye at selling off our NHS.

Fight for it. Vote Labour on December 12.

 

Interesting that all this relies on leaving the EU with no deal.....the very thing Boris has made sure is still a possibility.

 

Thing is, yes have that opinion but it doesn't just apply to the Tories.

So you would prefer the NHS not to have better access to life saving medication by opening up the US market more?

NHS needs to be protected, I've suggested this NHS protection bill which could do that.

I've been reading through the various party manifesto docs.. Interesting to see the green party are actually proposing exactly the same, what I wrote to Dan Jarvis about. Rather than panic about what could happen, put into practice protections to prevent.

Someone mentioned how could we vote out because of the fixed term parliament legislation. Well yes but they would be wiped out at any future election was my point if that was the cause.

Plus I am sure if the NHS is as loved throughout the country as it seems, we would possibly see a country wide general strike making the number involved in minors strike look like a family gathering. In short if the NHS was sold off, the country could be brought to a halt by the public demanding an election, reversing any such decision.

Probably something we couldn't influence should policy be driven by the EU by the way. One reason by I support leaving. We have more power to hold our own government and parliament to account than we do the EU.

 

To save me time...

Has anyone actually read these papers?

Does it make any suggestion that the NHS is to be sold and become a privatised entity

Or is it making suggestions that services and provisions within the NHS will be open to tender to US companies?

Or is it just a case of sensationalist headlines that have caught the Eye...

 

Lets try keep this one civil please people. No matter which side of the coin you're falling on try to respect the other sides opinion and use constructive arguments against each other without resorting to name calling and stone throwing.

 

So quote by quote on the points what you didn't agree with and why. Otherwise pointless. this is after all a forum for debate not hate. So stop slinging the hate.

So point 1..

We aren't going to cut off other cheaper for the country pharma supply agreements just becuase the US demand it..

Point 2.

I guess when the EU enter trade agreements, they start with the same stance. Any good negotiator starts from a point of strength an compromises during the course.

Point 2.

I am 100% for keeping the NHS free at the point of use and for best value agreements. Nothing has been produced to say that we would ever agree to removing either of those.

Point 3

Opening up markets isn't a bad thing. More competition should drive down prices, whilst it is in our power to maintain standards.

So please tell me which of those you find the most SCARY as you put it.

Do you not want the best value, best drug availability if it doesn't exist in our current agreements. Do you not want the NHS to e free at the point of use?

Because that is exactly what I want.

 

Best comment so far on this thread Wombwell-red. 100% sure I have kept all my responses civil, if not I offer my full apologies..

 

https://www.scribd.com/document/437...king-Group-Full-Readout#fullscreen&from_embed

So if everyone could read, then selectively choose the paragraphs that match their own particular prejudices then move on.

 

The fact that you have two point 2's

 

Haha yeah got me on that one.. Calling it a multi pronged point.

 

Boris has also said they not selling out so that’s another reason to believe they are , I saw his lips move .