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My only hope is for another hung parliament. Chances of things going well are about as likely as us staying up. A lot of the folks in Barnsley that think they are going to be better off, after Johnson takes us to an eventual no deal, (which I'm certain is his real intent), are in for a nasty shock. I can't feel sorry for them any more, but I can feel sorry for people that have to put up with the consequences of their blinkered world view.

 

One thing I've noticed is how hypocritical and completely selfish a lot of people have become over the last few years.

 

The old adage about people becoming more right wing as they get older seems to be true.

I’ve a few older mates who have gone the other way, harder left. But I know lots of people I’d have described as centre left who are now racist angry old men.

 

The Labour voters I've met who say they aren't going to vote for them this time are all middle aged or old. It's got to the stage with them that even if someone told them Brexit would cost them 20,000 a year they wouldn't care. When you tell them that it is the young who will suffer they say they are doing it for the future of the young - yeah right . .I'm afraid there is no reasoning with these people. They blame Labour for the fact we aren't already Brexited, neatly ignoring the fact that Boris voted against it at least twice. Boy George was so right when he sang, "War is stupid and people are stupid".

 

I voted for the SDP in 1983. The country has moved massively to the right. I think I'm still in the same place though....

 

This one really puzzles me.

no matter how many times you explain that the government had a majority (all be it a bought one) and they didn’t need labour to support any bill to get it through parliament, they can’t grasp it. And in some really odd twists - when you mention Tories who voted against the bill, their response is ‘well the bill wasn’t a proper Brexit’.

so the logic goes ... it’s labours fault that Mays deal was ****, even though they were never let anywhere near it. Of course, it’s right they weren’t let near it because they’re idiots. absolutely bats.

 

Agree with everything you’ve put.
I put it down to lack of decisiveness from Labour of publicly saying where they stood towards Brexit as a Party, up until recently they just sat on the fence.
Unfortunately like most cases it leaves a void for someone to fill and the people filling it were these such people.

 

I’m not sure what Labour could have done differently TBH. With 2/3 of their supporters being remainers and 1/3 Brexiteers, how could they possibly please a big enough proportion of their supporters to not lose potential seats?

 

Same with the Tories though(numbers might be slightly different).
It’s clear many Tory MP didn’t want Brexit either but the clear message from the top was they was going to deliver it.

 

Don’t know about that, I’m 70 and it seems to me that people in general have become stupider and more naive as I’ve got older. Turkey’s voting for Christmas with leg grinning Farage with his knife already out.

 

The Tory - brexiteer thing amongst the supporters is a lot stronger though.

less so amongst their MP’s but that’s an entirely different kettle of fish.

 

And more racist.

 

I'll rephrase it. They betrayed not all, but the vast majority of their constituents.

 

Again though how?

"Your representative owes you, not his industry only, but his judgment; and he betrays, instead of serving you, if he sacrifices it to your opinion"
"The first duty of a member of Parliament is to do what he thinks in his faithful and disinterested judgement is right and necessary for the honour and safety of Great Britain. His second duty is to his constituents, of whom he is the representative but not the delegate"

 

They didn’t.
And to say they did is utterly ridiculous (as above).

the Tories negotiated a deal, and all they had to do to enact that deal was to vote for it.

the fact that they failed to do so, has nothing whatsoever to do with any labour MP, not one. That’s how the HoC works.

can I suggest that anyone who doesn’t understand the British political system abstain from voting until they’ve read up on it because they’re embarrassing themselves.

 

Are you suggesting that as a government has a majority of mps in the house of commons then if that governments MPs vote collectively then that vote goes through regardless? Are you further suggesting that if those government MPs don't vote for the governments own bill then that is the fault of that governments MPs and nobody else?

It'll never catch on

 

And lost nearly 70% of their supporters?
That’s going all out for a win with half your team sat in the dressing room.

Edit to add...
How many Tory voters do you think an anti EU Corbyn would attract? Enough to make up for losing 2/3 of Labour voters?

ive voted Labour in every election of my life, but if Corbyn had backed Brexit, they’d have lost my vote.

 

70%?

Are you talking about Labour Party card holders or voters?

I don’t recall on my slip where I put my party when voting in the brexit referendum... so where is the figure from?

 

polling that took place at the time - anything from 66-70% of Labour voters voted remain.

If you read the posts here of Labour supporters you'll see a similar 2/3 - 1/3 split