The Bottom Line

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by orsenkaht, Jan 22, 2020.

  1. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    This Board is not prepared to spend the money to make us a viable Championship club.

    While we've spent most of our history in the second tier, stability in that division is now just an aspiration. To that extent we would have to 'grow' our business to achieve it. I can't think of many businesses that haven't had to invest to grow. Without that investment we are, like Mr Micawber just waiting for something to turn up. So success in League One followed by struggle in the Championship will probably continue to be our lot. Coaches, systems and tactics will make no difference if the players are not of Championship standard, or are sold once they reach it. There is no escaping this truth.
     
  2. icer

    icer Well-Known Member

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    i think we will become a mid table L1 team at some point as teams in L1 improve, overspill from Champ etc the ability to compete top of L1 wont go on forever and players will be attracted based on where they see our ambition - in fact that seems to already be the case. Many teams are now cheating their way out ( or not) of the Champ and we have declared we aren't one. We have to reset our expectations as fans. I did earlier in the season and redefined my own priorities. I made the ‘is it worth it’ statement ages ago and more and more have said the same. Ill be reassessing my ST come March and so far i think ill just pick and choose what i do ad hoc in L1 next season maybe even if we stay up. It hasnt been much fun this season not the last few in the Championship. The pattern is what saddens me most.
     
  3. Ged

    Geddiswasguud Well-Known Member

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    And this is the REAL cost... that the plan and the board have to realise .....fans are unwilling to put up with. Loyalty only goes so far, people will not turn up to see their team lose every week.
     
  4. Birkdale Red

    Birkdale Red Well-Known Member

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    I just put something similar on Twitter. Owners will see more value and profit in us being a yo-yo club. MAKE money in L1, with performances, player sales and lower costs. TRY to sustain Champ status with the same model (that's proven time and again to be futile).

    Last few years we have picked up a few gems that have more than helped us compete in L1 and have success there. They are relying on the same pot luck that we will find another diamond or two. It will only take ONE season of mediocrity in L1 for everything to come tumbling down again and a sustained period in the lower leagues to follow.
     
  5. Shy Talk

    Shy Talk Well-Known Member

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    With respect resetting expectations isn't the same thing as giving up altogether.

    My first 20 or so seasons were 1961 to 1981, which coincided with the club's longest spell in the lower leagues. 20 years of 3rd and 4th Division football, losing to non-league teams in the Cup, being at rock bottom of Division 4 with no clear way forward. My expectations were formed around this and haven't changed much to this day. Second tier football was a pipedream then and our time at (and above) that level since have always been a bonus to me.

    Of course there are few like me and the vast majority of you have, and rightly so, higher expectations. But if you truly support a club, have it in your blood as I do, you accept it for what it is, take the rough with the smooth, and carry on regardless. As do the thousands of fans of those clubs who have NEVER flown as high as we have.
     
  6. stairfoot.red

    stairfoot.red Well-Known Member

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    Yep and there was 2000 others watching them with you and if we continue down the current path that will be the case again.
     
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  7. Hykehamtyke

    Hykehamtyke Well-Known Member

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    Professional football is supposed to be a public entertainment business.

    These owners do not give two ’s about entertaining the Oakwell faithful imho and as long as this continues, supporters like myself a a fair few thousand others will give Oakwell a miss.
    Until this is perceivably addressed with enough quality on the pitch to at least attempt to compete in whichever league we reside, I refuse to darken my Saturdays with the embarrassment on offer.

    It isn’t the fault of the players brought in, they aren’t of the required standard, it is purely the fault of the recruitment team and owners buying too many cheap, foreign bang average players to replace quality sold on for bang average championship fees as last summer has proven. A smaller squad of more quality was required to compete within our meagre budget, not a massive one full of average youthful punts.

    When PC started this younger recruitment, we still had a few older heads to instruct the young ‘starlets’. The recruitment team then looked at youthful lower league English players who were the stars of their particular clubs, CH an example from Plymouth.
    Now, as I say, the current crop all look bang average and to make matters worse, mostly foreign needing half a season to get used to the pace and quality of the English game at this level. There just isn’t the time I’m afraid meaning another championship relegation is firmly on the cards.

    Personally, I don’t buy into the idea we will come straight back up either, as I think this current crop, once mowatt, Woodrow and Chaplin are subsequently sold on relegation, aren’t good enough for an immediate bounce back to the championship. This is where the owners plan will massively unravel I believe and they themselves will look to sell up. I mean, they have probably already recouped their initial loan to buy the club over 2years since with player sales I reckon, so I think they will decide as the player money tree dries up its time to move on again. They have form for this remember at Nice.

    Sorry, although I love BFC and have done for 40 years, I will not line the pockets of these entertainment thieves, Lee, Conway et al.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
  8. icer

    icer Well-Known Member

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    i think most fans want their club to play at the highest level they can and also to feel they have that chance to compete there. I too have been a fan watching in Div 4 but the majority of my 45plus years has been in the 2nd tier which was seen as our natural place. Now here comes the bit that is a source of my dissolution more than in the past. We seem to be able to get into the division yet we consistently over the past 2-3 cycles dismantle and disadvantage ourselves at retaining our position there. We clearly aim for following the buy sell model so much it puts us in the very same relegation fight. My expectations are that we should give ourselves a chance, then if we fail i would feel its not through a lack of trying. I dont subscribe to the principle that fans should just attend week in week out irrespective of the clubs status and anything less means your not a real fan. I believe there is also a level of loyalty from the club and a reciprocal level of support in them. I also believe fans have to be the clubs conscience and be a voice. Football isnt the only thing in my life. Maybe I'm on my own and not a true fan but hey thats how it is for me right now.
     
    Last edited: Jan 22, 2020
  9. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    But they've spent a considerable amount of money. Just not well. We signed too many players, we have too many options in some positions and are threadbare in others. They are prepared to spend money, they've spent money, but they haven't spent money wisely. Even from a buy players for profit standpoint, it appears to be poorly invested.
     
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  10. Farnham_Red

    Farnham_Red Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    2 points
    - I started 10 years later than Shy Talk and most of the 1970's we were in the 4th Division but gates were better than 2000 around 5K to 6K under IleyOut IIRC so your 2000 is not correct
    - There isnt a practical alternative unless our owners pump money in which they have always said they are not prepared to do the current football financial structure in the championship makes it not practical to compete unless you are running at a large loss - or have parachute payments
    Until that is fixed we need to rely on lucking on to a good group of players and then being careful about how we sell them on,
    I think the club got it wrong this Summer with the sales of Pinnock and Moore but I can understand why they did what they did, Its not just the signing of players its their ongoing costs - a good experienced Championship centre half is going to cost us at least 20K per week in wages (£1Million per year) and we just cant do that unless the owners are prepared to bankroll it and why would they?

    I really dont think they want to run a yoyo club but it may well be that's what we are until either they get it right - like Sheff United managed eventually or give up. Thowing money isnt guaranteed to work either - look at Sunderland Bolton Portsmouth Birmingham etc.
    In any case I have enjoyed many of our games this season we arent too far off and were we to start the season now I dont think we would go down - but we lost too many games before Struber arrived so now its likely we will be back at Sunderland Pompey and Swindon next season
     
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  11. Jak

    Jake The Red Banned Idiot

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    Where we've been throughout our history is of no relevance, and it's boring to see that line trotted out whenever we struggle. We do not deserve to be in this division just because we've spent the majority of our history within it. There are plenty of more storied clubs who are below us in the pyramid at present. It's the same attitude that Leeds and Wednesday fans have, that they belong in the top division. It's nonsense.

    I agree with other parts of your post and of others who've posted subsequently. We have recruited far too purely, we've targeted one particular age range last summer and the inevitable has happened. Too many learning on the job in what is one of the toughest divisions in football. But age/experience isn't necessarily the only factor in our form this season.

    We haven't played as poorly as yesterday very often. Probably just a handful of very bad performances. But we can be very good and in a dominant mood (we were on top for the first quarter of an hour last night) but there's always that threat that we'll gift a goal to the opposition. All three goals came about last night due to our own failings. We had suffice opportunity to get rid of the ball before the opening goal. But Ritzmaier and Mowatt tried to be cute when the ball needed launching downfield. Preston had targeted that wing and the pressure was telling. Just get rid of the ball, stop trying to be clever. There's a time and a place for everything. There is never a time nor place for what Andersen did for the second goal. And the third was just comical.

    So I do question the strategy and parts of the recruitment. I question some of Stendel's tactics and now some of Struber's. I am not a big fan of the passing we're doing in defence and between them and the goalie. Even if we had Baresi at the back and Zoff in goal. It's just not for me, I don't like it. But I understand why it's a tactic, I get the point of it. For our fans to boo them as they're doing it is completely stupid, embarrassing and not at all helpful. I hate booing. But I get why people do it at half time of full time. It's letting off steam, it's making their point. I get it. But during the game? While we have possession? Idiotic in my book.

    But it's the first bad performance under Struber and first defeat at Oakwell under him. I don't think the reaction from some fans in attendance was fair and some of it on boards like this one is over the top as well. And whilst mine is just one opinion, I'm free to share it. And so are they. Because we are all in it together at the end of the day and shouldn't be squabbling.

    I have feared relegation all season, but I don't feel the need to spew vitriol onto message boards nor do I need to abuse players, staff and others at the club. Who I'm sure are doing their best.

    It really isn't necessary in my opinion to predict an apocalypse every time we lose. I'm choosing to support them. I'm looking forward to a weekend in Hampshire and I hope we continue the nice distraction that is the FA Cup. Just as I'll follow us next year in the third division should that be where we line up, despite our history saying we deserve to be higher...
     
  12. ubi

    ubique_tyke Well-Known Member

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    The poor quality iv seen from alot of championship teams this season say to me that its not totally out of our reach, if we had people who knew a little bit about football identifying/signing the players i feel we wouldnt be too far off from been competitive. The amount of money wev wasted on 'potential' could have been invested into a few 'proven' signings in key positions.
     
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  13. John Peachy

    John Peachy Well-Known Member

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    I'm pretty much in agreement with this.

    The football this season, barring multitude of defensive **** ups has been good. Given Pinnock was under contract & an appreciating asset, if we go down, the sale of him for peanuts will be the main reason for failure. I think the passing out from the back has to be used at the right times. When we were 2-0 up against Huddersfield was not the right time to invite pressure on to us. Last night we had few options to change the style of play & have a plan B. All teams need to have one. Better teams than us have resorted to them this season & won points against us.

    I watched pretty much all of the Iley era (74/75 was my first season). Largely we have punched above out weight from the 80's onwards. A lot of what Red Rain has said at times makes sense, but if there is genuinely a plan by our owners, (as stated), then there needs to be a bit of deviation & speculation to achieve certain goals. The two teams that have taken us to the cleaners this season, Preston & Brentford (who we gifted Pinnock to), are teams of a similar stature & support base, yet they are pushing for playoff places.

    There will be wailing & gnashing of teeth if we go down again. The question next season will be if we can bounce back again. As far as I see it the jury is out on that. Our support in recent times has been astonishing historically. Our promotion season we were getting 7-8k at home games till it looked like a reality, but John Dennis held his nerve at the time & backed the manager & the rest is history. If we had a poor season in L1 next year I could see us being back to that kind of support, which would be a crying shame.
     
  14. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    You pay your money and take your choice. Self-inflicted relegation and yet another season in a league we don't need to be in might be acceptable to you. It's not to me. Stability in the Championship is what we were offered. This Board are not delivering it. They can do what they want after this season. Good Luck to them.
     
  15. Redhelen

    Redhelen Well-Known Member

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    But we weren't going to be at that point because we had an entirely new defence unit to gel together. Struber is struggling a bit now because it is the first time the full squad hasn't been available to him.
     
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  16. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    15 April 1968 was my first visit to Oakwell, btw. Just in case there are any more lectures about "They were in the Nelson League when I first went down". It's tedious.
     
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  17. pon

    pontyender Well-Known Member

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    We should have started the season with the promoted squad and done any of our selling in January. We didn't like it in January 2017, but we had points in the bank which bought an extra season in the second tier.
     
  18. Jak

    Jake The Red Banned Idiot

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    I know. You've said this every time we lose a game, orsenkaht. You missed all of last season because you said you're a customer and don't want to support the club financially in the third division. That's your prerogative. But some of us support the club through thick and thin and therefore don't have such lofty expectations.
     
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  19. Trickster Two Six

    Trickster Two Six Well-Known Member

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    This. Think I’ll just go back to half a dozen games a season when the fence doesn't want painting or the windows are clean. Not for me this snobbery some fans seem to have against those of us who’d rather not pay to watch out of their depth kids getting beat week in week out by teams we didn't used to fear whilst our rich owners, with no affiliations with our town club or fans search out the next young lad they can make a quick profit out of. Not for me this.
     
  20. Jak

    Jake The Red Banned Idiot

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    There's no snobbery. I just tire of reading "I'm not coming anymore" from the same posters after each defeat.

    It's like me posting after every win "This is why I'm coming to games."
     
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