The Bottom Line

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by orsenkaht, Jan 22, 2020.

  1. 55&counting

    55&counting Well-Known Member

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    great post
     
  2. Stephen Dawson

    Stephen Dawson Well-Known Member

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    I think you feel just as gutted when we lose whether in attendance or not. The games I've seen on television barring Brentford (last sixty minutes), Middlesbrough (after they scored) Derby County (nightmare first half) and Birmingham (total bore) have been entertaining.
     
  3. Tyk

    Tyketical Masterstroke Well-Known Member

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    No there aren't.

    There's Ipswich, Sunderland, Coventry, Bolton and at a push Portsmouth and Blackpool.
     
  4. Jak

    Jake The Red Banned Idiot

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    There's no push with the last two. And six is plenty enough to help satisfy my point. Which was very simple, nobody has a right to be in any division.
     
  5. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    If you read my OP properly you'll see that that was the point I was making. I clearly say that "While we've spent most of our history in the second tier, stability in that division is now just an aspiration." Stability in the division was Mr Conway's stated aim at the press conference when the consortium took over. However I also make the point that some investment has to be made in order for us to attain that status (and to keep it, for that matter). So no - past history confers no entitlement. Stability in the Championship has to be earned through investment and hard work. Our current strategy will not achieve it because the team is being shorn of it's best talent every time that talent emerges. Misrepresenting my views does not enhance the contrary argument.

    Another misrepresentation some on here like to make is that people who hold my opinion or similar are arguing for the stadium to be sold, the club to be plunged into debt and unaffordable millions spent on better players. That has never been my view. But the club has to offer player wages adequate to retain a lower to middle level Championship player or two if we can have any hope of establishing ourselves in this tier. Davies, Lindsay and Pinnock are not world-beaters, but they played together with understanding between them and forged the meanest defence in League One last year. Still being in contract, we should not have released them without having suitably-experienced replacements. I make no apologies for re-stating that view and I will continue to do so while the club's present predicament is discussed on here.

    Maybe the Ritzmaier and (reported) Sollbauer signings signal a belated recognition by the Board that their rigid policy needs to be more adaptable in order for us to exist at this higher level? We shall see.
     
  6. Fon

    Fonzie Well-Known Member

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    Amen.

    Just because someone wants a few experienced signings, doesn't mean we all insist that we take out 50 years of bridging loans and financially cripple the club. That does seem to be the only option given by the blind defenders of the Plan.

    "Lets recruit a little bit of experience"

    "WHAT???? AND PLUNGE THE CLUB INTO DEBT. WE MAY AS WELL END UP LIKE BURY. WE DON'T WANT TO BE WEDNESDAY OR BIRMINGHAM"

    "Erm no. Just a couple of older heads will do"
     
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  7. blivy

    blivy Well-Known Member

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    How do you propose we get this Championship quality on the pitch?

    The club has to sell players to avoid making losses. Mistakes have been made in the recruitment process, but that obviously isn't the owner's intention (and more the fault of the recruitment team).

    There is only one way to guarantee Championship quality players - spend, spend, spend. Easy to do when its not your own money.
     
  8. pon

    pontyender Well-Known Member

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    There's a balance to be struck here and we haven't been getting it right. Starting the season with the contracted players from the promoted squad would have been the better idea. Failing that, selling one rather than both centre halves would have been the most sensible thing to do.
     
  9. Hykehamtyke

    Hykehamtyke Well-Known Member

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    Where have I said spend spend spend? Weak argument to my post tbh. That also doesn’t guarantee success in this league either btw.

    Massive mistakes have been made in sales and recruitment through either naivety, ignorance or both.
    A smaller squad with 3 or 4 quality additions may have been an alternative instead of 10 punts that have mainly turned out to be championship sub-standard and average at best on long contracts.

    Pinnock and Moore sales were disgraceful for the bog standard fees received and with no ready made replacements we now have just 5 wins in 29 games. Yes we have to sell but we always, always have our pants pulled down on transfer sales, it’s not only taking us backwards relative to others at this level but it’s also poor business continuing to be the cheap selling club we always have been. I thought these owners would at least have rectified this major flaw in the business plan?

    Trying to keep a promotion winning side together, at least until January before want away players (under contract) are sold, should’ve ensured enough points to consolidate in this division imho but no, Barnsley cashed in for championship peanuts and nothing short of miracle form from here on in or teams above us having a complete meltdown/point deductions will prevent relegation from the championship again as far as I can see.

    I have an opinion, I don’t have the answers, I’m not running a football club but those who are are making a right clusterfook of it from where I’m sitting.
     
    Last edited: Jan 23, 2020
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  10. blivy

    blivy Well-Known Member

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    I completely agree that selling both our centre halves was absolutely not ideal. But when players are attempting to force a move, refusing to enter contract negotiations or demoralising the camp, what do you propose we do? We can't stick them in the first team and expect them to perform like they were doing previously. So the alternative is to let them rot in the reserves in which case both parties lose out. Unfortunately there is very little loyalty in football any more and we can't make players want to play for us.

    The fact of the matter is that very few players aspire to play for Barnsley, as very few players aspire to play for other similar clubs. You can only attract them if you promise not to stand in the way of a move to a bigger club, or pay them wads and wads of cash. The former is sustainable, and the latter is not, so I can understand why that's the approach we've taken. It was unfortunate that both Pinnock and Lindsay were looking for a move at the same time. Previously we've always had an understudy and kept that continuity, but no one expected the level of progression made by Pinnock.
     
  11. BarnsleyReds

    BarnsleyReds Well-Known Member

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    Agree with just about every word.
     
  12. pon

    pontyender Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. It isn't in the player's long-term interest to under perform.
     
  13. BarnsleyReds

    BarnsleyReds Well-Known Member

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    What do you think it does to potential incoming players, to see that we are stopping a player from leaving and getting 5x the wage?
     
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  14. dyketyke

    dyketyke Active Member

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    Been there since 1956. Good and bad. But you know as I get older, I get less tolerant. Of everything. But then the world does doesn't it, as we have greater choices in all facets of life. What I find hard is accepting these aren't really football people that own the club and so their process will continue as it is now, selling a few good 'uns and recruiting a shedload of promising lads a few of whom will make them a profit. Struber papered over the cracks in his first few games and we do play nice football but reality bit on Tuesday. The prospect of League one again depresses me as the football is so much better where we are. I'm trying my best to wear the rose tinted specs.
     
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  15. Old

    Old Gimmer Well-Known Member

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    So what’s your alternative? Hope for success every other season to balance the failure every other season?
     
  16. Old

    Old Gimmer Well-Known Member

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    It wasn’t unfortunate though was it? As I keep asking, can anyone name a player currently at Oakwell who wouldn’t want to move if someone offered them more money? They are professional footballers. Our only hold on them is the contract they have signed, and their playing registration. The club chose to cash in. Trying to dress it up as anything else is simply ridiculous.
     
  17. Old

    Old Gimmer Well-Known Member

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    What effect do you think almost certain relegation has?
     
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  18. Jak

    Jake The Red Banned Idiot

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    You are now bringing up points that I’ve neither argued for or against. You may have done with other posters but my only disagreement right off the bat, was the continual reference to our natural position. There is no such thing. As I say, plenty of clubs will believe they should be higher than they are. When I started watching us we were a third division club not long since out of the fourth.

    I find you to be a rather erudite and pleasant poster in general and do not wish to get into a long and drawn out debate. I just wish there was an acceptance from all sides that we all want the same things and that goes for those running the club.
     
  19. BarnsleyReds

    BarnsleyReds Well-Known Member

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    Less damage long term. It's alright telling a player he can't leave, but that's the only bargaining chip we have for new players coming in, that they can use us to leapfrog to bigger and better things. Even if we kept hold of Pinnock, he'd have only stayed 1 season longer, but the damage it would do to our reputation as a club that develops players would last for long after, making him even harder to replace.
     
  20. Old

    Old Gimmer Well-Known Member

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    If you say so. It's a new one for me though. Players only sign for us so they can then sign for someone else. I guess it reflects the height of our ambition though.
     

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