393

Over seven times as many people in the UK died in 24 hours than have died in Japan *in total* (56). Over twice as many people died in the UK in 24 hours than have died in South Korea *in total* (162)

Yes, the NHS are doing a fantastic job, but it could *and should* have been much, much better.

And, as for new and not been experienced before, sorry but that is weapons grade ********. This is the third global pandemic of the 21st century (not including AIDS and Ebola). We have been incredibly lucky not to experience a major pandemic in the UK over the last few decades (except Swine Flu, but that only killed 138 in the UK - including my big boss at the time), but that doesn't mean there hasn't been any. Pandemics are to be expected every 10-20 years, and just like hurricanes in the Caribbean you might not know how bad or how much damage, but you know sooner or later one will arrive.

 

Different cultures. In Japan they don't shake hands, already wear masks, wash their hands constantly etc.

 

And? They also learnt the lessons of SARS. It didn't get here, so we didn't. European (and American) exceptionalism.

We also didn't test enough, trace infections, quarantine - and still aren't applying quarantine restrictions to anyone entering the country. Multiple flights from New York to Heathrow daily, and anyone can just waltz through Heathrow and into London coughing over anyone they meet.

 

Unless their underlying health condition was going to kill them today anyway then that gives no comfort. My mam has an underlying health condition, she's still hopefully likely to live another 20 years though. If she gets this and dies people like you will shrug and say 'yeah, but she had an underlying health condition' like it won't have just robbed her of 20 years of life.

 

It's worse than writing them off - it's wilful ignorance of the situation.

When someone tries to minimise the risk of what's happening by saying 'they have underlying health conditions so many of them would have died anyway', they genuinely believe they're adding some insight.

When I point out that 'we're all going to die anyway' apparently that's just being pedantic.

The fact is that we're now beyond flu season, and people tend not to die of COPD or asthma, they may have died of cancer or similar though (but there are millions of cancer survivors walking amongst us), but I don't believe for a second that the government here or anywhere else has managed to devise a method for counting these deaths that's so flawed as to be completely misleading.

I know many people will disagree with that but ... y'know

 

Absolutely 100% bang on.

 

Every single person alive has an underlying health condition that leads to death - being alive.

 

This place is getting more fcukked up day by day.

‘Only 28 didn’t have underlying issues’.

I mean, come on FFS.

I’ve just been told about a family friend in Barnsley that has been given 2 days to live at best. COVID 19 positive and no underlying health issues apart from being in his 60s.

 

Bingo.

 

Its the same people that are trying to argue that this is still like flu and should be treated as so.

In Italy, so far in just over 6 weeks, 61 doctors have contracted the virus and subsequently died; so we would be talking approx 300-400 over a winter period (Even though thats not taking into account that C19 is far more contagious and 60 can become 600 literally overnight). How many Doctors or nurses are killed by contracting flu from the patients that they are looking after, in the UK?

I can bet its not many more than none.

 

I think you omitted the word needlessly right at the end there.

 

I know you didn't mean to, but that makes it sound like the NHS could be doing better, when in reality you meant 'the plan' could have been much better. I say 'the plan' but the reality is we simply didn't have one. As flawed as I think is the strategy of our board (BFC), (what we all usually mean by 'the plan') at least there was one. It was thought about and acted upon. It's difficult to comprehend the fact that you can be in charge of the health and welfare of an entire country and have no idea what to do in these circumstances. You can look into the past and see that epidemics have occurred through the entirety of human history, that just this century we've had numerous very luck near misses with the likes of SARS, Swine Flu and Ebola, and one direct hit to livestock in the form of foot and mouth, yet we made no preparation whatsoever for this. Never mind preparation, there hadn't even been a discussion on what we might do. We're winging it. What a set of *****

 

I don't disagree, I think you're right. But there is an algorithm used when reporting on seasonal Flu that gives excess deaths, not just total deaths, and 'how right' they believe they are in terms of a percentage, so you often get a range. Underlying health conditions is very misleading. Who hasn't got them? You're very lucky if you haven't. If your underlying health condition is asthma or depression or chronic acid reflux or arthritis, then to mention that in the figures of those who died is absurd. A person was not going to die any time soon from such a condition. If you die in a hospice, the reason for your admission being terminal cancer, and also test positive for Covid-19, then that statistic is of some value. It doesn't make any difference to the personal grief of the family, but it does to the understanding of the virus. I'm not sure what is reported at the moment, but I take no solace from the undefined 'underlying health condition'. The number of deaths being reported is absolute for people who have died who tested positive for Covid-19. I doubt that will ever be separated into from Covid-19 and with Covid-19. It might,eventually, be put through the same algorithm as that used for seasonal Flu, but until it is, the absolute amount of deaths is the only one worth listening to.

 

That is what really shocked me. In my weird little head I always imagined that the government or army had a series of different disaster protocols in place and that one would cover a contagious disease. I didn't expect it to have every little detail in it but I did expect there to be something that says if there is an outbreak then a, b and c would happen. It seems that this just doesn't exist.

 

Possibly Japan under-reported the figures because they didn't want the Olympics postponed.

 

It did, but Brexit seems to have got in the way. https://www.theguardian.com/politic...ress-pandemic-threat-not-properly-implemented

 

I stopped automatically believing government figures back in the 1980s, when they exaggerated the number of sca.....err...miners returning to work, in order to encourage more to do so.

 

Worked for government for 18 years and still do, after a month I never believed any figures put out to the general public. Only figures you need to accept and trust are those published via unions who get them from members/whistleblowers.

 

I worked for them longer, and I believe the stats, but as I keep saying, you have to grasp the question being asked.

I think it’s an odd world where people think that parliamentary questions and FOI requests can be answered with lies . Where billions of ££s of taxpayers money is spent with no checks and balances.

 

I've no doubt that there are some columns which when added together come to 393 (or whatever today's figure is). The question is are they the right columns. I seem to recall that back in the day, the way the unemployment figures were calculated was a bit crafty. Statistics can be subtly massaged depending on the message they want to push. I imagine that at the moment, they are more interested in focusing minds to stay at home. When blame starts to fly around at the end of all this, their emphasis will no doubt change.