Lying with facts Trump style

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Farnham_Red, Jun 6, 2020.

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  1. Farnham_Red

    Farnham_Red Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    This must make alistair campbells attempts at spin look like a 2 year olds

    Trump showing how great he is presiding over the largest ever monthly increase in employment

    Impressive - Obama never managed anything like that

    Still I guess if Trump is taking the credit for a small percantage of furloughed workers returning to work he must be to blame for the over 20 million who lost their jobs in April

    [​IMG]

    You really couldnt make it up
     
    Farnham_Red, Jun 6, 2020
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  2. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    His Presidency at the moment is tits up with a lot of previous allies leaving the sinking ship .
    He’s just clutching at any straw that makes him look good .
    I just hope nothing goes drastic in regards next six months because imo he’ll be gone, but Yanks love a good quick war where they can easily kick ass and maybe something like that could save him . Really hope not ,
     
    Marlon, Jun 6, 2020
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  3. Farnham_Red

    Farnham_Red Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Most likely to be a civil war the way he is carrying on at the moment.
     
    Farnham_Red, Jun 6, 2020
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  4. Hooky feller

    Hooky feller Well-Known Member

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    Trouble is there are lots more gun toting redneck republicans than armed democrats that still support the idiot.
     
    Hooky feller, Jun 6, 2020
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  5. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    What knowledge do you have to support that claim?
     
    Loko the Tyke, Jun 6, 2020
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  6. churtonred

    churtonred Well-Known Member

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    I don't think there will be but that country is way too close to the brink for comfort.
    Imagine the UK where protesters returning to their cars from a rally had to pass by groups of private citizens watching them while openly armed with rifles and handguns.
    There is a lunatic minority in the US who are itching for civil unrest to be bad enough that they can start using those rifles.
    Again i think there's enough sense remaining there to avoid it but if Trump loses by anything but a landslide in November he's going to stir up these idiots to unprecedented levels.
     
    churtonred, Jun 6, 2020
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  7. Farnham_Red

    Farnham_Red Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Jeez it was a tongue in cheek comment to someone suggesting Trump may start a war to help get re-elected
    I have no knowledge at all to support it - but do you have any knowledge to support a claim that he wouldnt try and use civil unrest to try and play the Law and order card to in an attempt to get re-elected
     
    Farnham_Red, Jun 6, 2020
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  8. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    What America is experiencing now it has experienced before. And each time they go through this it intensifies greater, which is what we're seeing now.

    Problem with comments like 'civil war' is that they're based on the absolute extreme snippets of both sides consumed by the media which ignores anyone who sites in the middle ground and see people being armed with weapons as bad, police brutality as bad, looting as bad, and protesters not following police instructions as bad.

    There's many other tactics he'll use to get re-elected, in my opinion, but the Law and Order unrest claim isn't one of them.
     
    Loko the Tyke, Jun 6, 2020
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  9. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    I don't buy in to the argument of 'imagine if it was the UK'. We're thousands of miles apart and two completely different countries with very different outlooks on politics and governance with a very different history.
     
    Loko the Tyke, Jun 6, 2020
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  10. churtonred

    churtonred Well-Known Member

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    I understand that. I was using the comparison to emphasise how far apart we are.
    Having armed vigilante groups openly on the streets, invading state capitol buildings etc is worrisome in anyone's book.
    Or should be.
    As i said... I think common sense will prevail but to suggest he's not going to dog whistle to these vigilantes is to ignore the fact that he's already doing it and has been throughout his Presidency.
     
    churtonred, Jun 6, 2020
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  11. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    But those 'vigilantes' are not what won him the presidency. The only reason I speak up on discussions like this is because there are widespread assumptions or descriptions on the US, which a lot of the time appear to be made purely on the media viewpoint someone has consumed, with very little knowledge of the US at all.
     
    Loko the Tyke, Jun 6, 2020
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  12. churtonred

    churtonred Well-Known Member

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    I've been following US politics for over four years.
    Yes. The swing voters won him the Presidency and hopefully will lose him the next election.
    I don't think anyone disputes that. The fact remains that he has consistently fired up the more extreme elements of his base.
    The fact that they won't decide the result doesn't mean it's impossible they'll kick up if he loses.
    And...again...on balance i think it should be ok but it's not something I'd bet the house on. It may not even involve violence but a close election especially with a Trump defeat may see the US become very, very dysfunctional.
     
    churtonred, Jun 6, 2020
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  13. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    The thing is we see all the negative snippets and clips where he just doesn't do a good job of acting like a President, but the country was doing well pre-Covid and protests. A lot of the American people feel in a better place post Obama and ignore the stupid soundbites as it doesn't impact on their daily lives.

    The fact the most powerful country in the world is going in to a 50/50 contest between Trump and Biden is just crazy. Not because it should be 0/100 in favour of Biden, but because Biden is pretty terrible himself too.
     
    Loko the Tyke, Jun 6, 2020
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  14. Old

    Old Gimmer Well-Known Member

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    In the event of him being re-elected I’m not sure I would rule out the possibility of a civil war. Presumably there would be an element, on both sides, that perceived a re-elected Trump as a de facto declaration of war. Hopefully, it won’t come to it given that Trump is so clearly evil that the idea of him winning again seems preposterous. But there are historical precedents of course. And this is America!!!
     
    Old Gimmer, Jun 6, 2020
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  15. RedStriker

    RedStriker Well-Known Member

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    I’ve got an interest in this US government too. He’s only really got one major media supporter in Fox news, al the rest MSNBC, CBS, CNN etc have been out to get him since his inauguration.
    If you want a good laugh get on YouTube and look at Seth Meyers’ A Closer Look. He’s brutal but very funny. Morning Joe on MSNBC is excellent too.
     
    RedStriker, Jun 6, 2020
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  16. Old

    Old Gimmer Well-Known Member

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    Did you mean to say that a lot of Americans felt in a better place unless they happened to be black? Perhaps you should also provide some evidence for your views Loko, given you ask other people to do so. It’s not all about the Dow Jones, regardless of Trump insisting it is.
     
    Old Gimmer, Jun 6, 2020
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  17. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    I wasn't bringing race in to the conversation at all. Why did you?

    You can look at his pretty stable approval rating as evidence possibly. I've also got friends, family and work colleagues all over the US, and I'm in the country a dozen times a year, so have a fairly solid idea of the mixed feeling towards him, which is different to the views you see on here for example. From those that are anti-Trump, before all this chaos, there was genuine fear that it was going to be a landslide victory. It's a bit more even now as he hasn't handled the protests at all well, but reports/experts suggest he could still win with just 270 of the votes, down from over 300 last time.
     
    Loko the Tyke, Jun 6, 2020
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  18. churtonred

    churtonred Well-Known Member

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    There seems to be a trend of thought that if you want Trump out you've bought the hype of the mainstream media. Especially if you're not American.
    I think that's rubbish.
    The same trend seems to be that if you favour a Democratic win over a Republican win you're blinkered by the media. Again rubbish.
    Everyone who has given America more than a passing glance knows how screwed up their system is. But washing your hands of everything and saying they're both as bad so i'm not voting for either is as flawed there as it is in the UK.
    If you want to achieve something you don't retreat to ideological utopia you deal in pragmatism. If choice b is less bad than choice a and you only have two choices you choose b and then try to move that party further to where you want to be.
    Anything else is just hot air.
     
    churtonred, Jun 6, 2020
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  19. Loko the Tyke

    Loko the Tyke Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Never suggested this once. I was commenting only on some of the sweeping statements made not on what you want to happen in terms of voting.


    On this one, you're 100% right. Did I suggest otherwise? I voted for Corbyn in the General Election. I had zero faith or confidence that he would do a good enough job and it was a difficult vote to cast. But it was a better alternative than voting for the Conservatives.
     
    Loko the Tyke, Jun 6, 2020
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  20. Old

    Old Gimmer Well-Known Member

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    I only mentioned race due to your statement (pretty sweeping when you think about it) that people were happy. Bit like ‘the people voted for Brexit’ ;) I do accept though, that I rely more on the media than you, given your links to America. I also acknowledge that the electoral college system can produce results that do not reflect overall voting (as it did last time); somewhat like our FPTP system in fairness.

    God help us all if he gets re-elected though.
     
    Old Gimmer, Jun 6, 2020
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