The Football Lads

Probably scared of being called racist? some people must though as they’ve retrieved it out of the water and its going in the museum

 

100 people in 3 years signed the last petition for the plaque to be amended and then after the Floyd murder 7,000 signed in a week.

 

He's a statue we can all agree needs taking down and quite honestly needs smashing to bits.

The sculptor Eric Gill has a statue above BBC HQ. Do some research and tell me if you agree. ** warning the subject matter isn't easy reading**

 

I would say people ignore laws all the time re.speeding for example.

 

Especially during lockdown, many a morning ive crossed paths with the likes of Dastardly and Mutley, the Slag Brothers, Lazy Luke and Blubber Bear and the Ant Hill Mob all on the Dearne Parkway.

 

People do you're correct but it doesn't make it OK does it.

 

https://www.theguardian.com/artanddesign/2006/jul/22/art.art

Maybe the way to go, not to ignore it but to acknowledge it. As I've said before, I don't really like the concept of statues.

 

I think its fair to say he had issues

 

Your hard-on for authority in the face of an irrelevant statue is duly noted.

 

The University of Leeds has one of his works front and centre inside the Michael Sandler building. People have pulled the plaque off several times but they keep putting it back on...

 

Brutal

 

If I kill someone because they were about to kill me then it's justifiable. If I kill someone walking down the street then clearly not. Now I'm exaggerating to make a point, because as I said context is everything.

If fascists pull down a statue of William Wilberforce then I'd not so much bothered about the purely criminal aspect of it (it's only a statue after all) , but more about what sort of statement is being made to the community at large.

You don't seem to ascribe any sort of societal intrinsic value to an action, instead you just jump to it being a criminal act. I find that mildly disturbing because your reaction is an appeal to authority, not what is morally correct.

That sort of view can lead to dark places when authority doesn't agree with clear universal values of right and wrong.

 

they certainly do,however , a traffic cop wouldnt sit by and watch you go past him whilst you were breaking the law.

 

Who is the judge and jury who decides what buildings and statues remain?

Burns, Peel, Ghandi, Mandela, the local mosque?

Is it done by a fair means and process where all parts of the argument are put across and the matter debated properly or will it by mob rule following the orders of their hierarchy? What’s the criteria?

Just turning up and destroying a statue regardless of the intrinsic value the action has under mob rule isn’t morally correct.

Regardless of whether you agree with the statue and the history behind it unless it’s done in with due process then you start leading down dark places that is closer to the fascists you despise than anything else.

What’s after the statues, storming libraries and book burning...

 

How do you come to that conclusion then?
All I’ve ever said is I disagree that criminal activity is acceptable, when there are clearly other avenues that can be explored.
How does pulling a statue down improve the message of a demonstration? How does it increase the possibility of them being successful? The reality is it doesn’t, once the shock aspect is over its lost in the realms of time.

You talk about morally correct, who determines what is morally correct you? Me? You talk about context, who determines context you? Me?
What happens when people’s opinion on morality or context varies, whose in the right?

Hiding behind a morality virtue is great in an idealistic world, but we don’t live in an ideal world and need the laws to make sure everyone as best as possible can live their lives.
I’ve asked a few times now on this thread but no seems willing to answer Was it acceptable for the demonstrators to deface the war memorial in Portsmouth over the weekend with large tins of paint?
I’m guessing your answer is yes, because it was a protest march.

 

Ahh bless, can’t win a debate so starts to resort to insults.
Shame really.

 

Put much better than I ever could.

 

I read some of this thread, but most of it depressed me.

I think of my great grandad Jack Hodgson.

Wounded at the Somme in 1916.

His stories & evidence of his battles. His life; 97 years. His travels. His sons & daughters. His grand daughters. Me (his great grandson). Jack Hodgson. War hero. My hero.

 

The rule of law is vital for any society. We haven't developed far enough as a species to be able to exist peacefully without it. In fact we're a million miles from it.
Laws should always be able to be tested and questioned though. It's part of how we develop as a society. It's why we live in the age we do and not in the equivalent of the 13th century.
The chucking of the statue in the river was illegal, understandable to an extent but misguided as it has allowed those who are bigoted or don't really give a s**t about those less fortunate an opportunity to deflect from the real issue.
There are people actually making a huge fuss about the safety of statues rather than about the issues of race discrimination and brutality.
It's pathetic.

 

Again better put than I could.