Minority Report v Wigan Athletic

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Red Rain, Jul 12, 2020.

  1. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    Minority Report begins once more with the usual caveat, watching via TV means that I am very uncertain about my analysis, especially away from the ball. I will do my best, but please expect mistakes.


    I have delayed writing and publishing Minority Report this week because I wanted to calm down. When I had finished it, which, was late last night, it was just not right. The analysis in particular was missing something. I decided not to post it. I knew the BBS would be angry, and I do not like to even read the BBS when it is angry (or joyous for that matter) because it loses all sense of balance. This morning, I have reviewed what I wrote last night, and I have changed a lot of it. I hope that it makes more sense, but who knows. My analysis, when I get to it, will talk once more about players who are being picked for positions that are outside their comfort zones, and this week, it will also talk about balance, or in our case, the lack of it. But first let’s talk about the game, and that will not take long.


    Once more Struber started with a formation that is refer to as 4-diamond-2, but in practice, that only describes the defensive shape of the system. When we get possession, Ludewig moves forward into midfield and the shape becomes 3-4-1-2. In that shape, the back 3 was Sollbauer, Andersen and Williams, the midfield was Ludewig, Ritzmaier, Mowatt and Styles with Woodrow just ahead of them, and our front 2 was Brown and Simoes. Wigan played 4-5-1 that became 3-5-2 when their coach realised that he needed to keep Ludewig further back, and engaged defensively.


    Today, it was men against boys once more. The older team displayed what I mean by the way that they managed the game…. and the referee. The game was only 20 minutes old, but already, I had counted 3 occasions when the Wigan right back had tried to con the referee and he was successful on two of those three occasions. The game used to be a game played by men. Men who were unafraid of the physical challenge. But in the modern game, players are instructed to go down when they feel a touch. Physical confrontation and strength are no longer part of the game, and for my money, the game is poorer for it. Referees are so nervous about missing something and the effect that it will have on the assessor’s mark for their performance, that they give stuff on the off chance it might be a foul or because the player has gone down and is out of the game. There is more incentive for them to guess, than to give what they have actually seen. But if that is the way of the world as it is now, then our players should also be playing the refs, and they are not.


    Before the game, there was lots of talk about Keiffer Moore, of how he would do this and how he would do that. For much of the game, he was isolated from his teammates because they played such a deep 4-5-1, and that is the ultimate consequence if that system is played in such a negative fashion. For Barnsley, it was a must win game, but for Wigan, with their 12 point deduction hanging over their heads, it was must not lose. Wigan were playing in a way that they could take advantage if we made a mistake, and we did make mistakes, but above all, they were set upon not conceding. Styles lost the ball twice, exposing us to the counter, and both full backs were beaten on a few occasions, leaving the way open for crosses from the line, but Wigan were as bad in attack as we were. Wigan had no shots on target throughout the game according to the BBC stats and Moore looked poor because of the lack of support from his teammates. That situation did not seem to get any worse following the sending off of Fox that reduced Wigan’s numbers for the last 20 minutes.


    All that might suggest that I was not unhappy with our performance, and that I thought we were unlucky. On the contrary, I was not happy with any aspect of the performance, and I will explain why. Our starting team had a back line of 4 right footed defenders. We had a midfield 3 who were all left footers, and we had a front line with 3 right footers. That is not a balanced team in my book. Jordan Williams, Marcel Ritzmaier, Callum Styles , Cauley Woodrow and Jacob Brown were all playing away from their ideal starting positions in their ideal system. I talked at length after the last match about players who are not able to show off their best qualities because they are outside their comfort zones. Today, we faced a team that were determined that they would not concede, and the last thing that it needed in our attempt to break down their resistance, was to start with any handicap.


    Morsy ran the game, but with only Moore ahead of him, there was little he could do to win it. As I say, Wigan had come to not lose the game and the system they played ensured there would be no space in the centre of the park, which coincidentally, was where we tried to attack them. Our midfield was very narrow, with only Styles seeking to use the space out wide. But Styles does not have the game for taking players on down the line, and I thought he was very poor until later in the game, when tiredness and the reduction in numbers gave him more room to cut inside and run at them with the ball at his feet. I do not like to criticise individual players, and I am usually much happier to talk about systems, but Ritzmaier was used for delivering set pieces into the box for almost all the game, and his crossing, almost without exception, was appalling. He was playing out of position, but that has no bearing on his ability to cross a dead ball. Why Struber sticks with him is a mystery.


    People tell me that Cauley Woodrow is more than just a goal scorer, that he is a good footballer who can contribute to the team outside the narrow confines of putting the ball in the back of the net. I give you exhibit A (today’s performance) as my evidence that he cannot. He was very poor throughout, but in fairness, he was no worse than Jacob Brown, who was never able to get into the game.


    So, there we have it. Williams, Ritzmaier, Styles, Woodrow and Brown were all played away from their natural positions. They were all outside their comfort zones, and they all played poorly. You cannot win tight games when 5 of your players do not play to their potential. It is as simple as that.



    Now many on the BBS will tell you that the problem is wholly that we sold our best players and we replaced them with kids, and that our fate was sealed before the season began, and there is no doubt that the age and inexperience of our team is a major factor in our performances this season, but today our central defenders were faultless and the forward that we sold was average. The coach has to do the best he can with what he has, and I do not think that either Stendel or Struber have done that this season. Struber does not have the players to perform effectively in the 4-diamond-2 system, and yet he has stuck with it. Our team does not have the quality or the mobility to play the press effectively, and yet we still do it. It is a prime example of hope over expectation. As many have pointed out, we probably did not have the players to survive in the Championship, right from day one, but I do not believe either coach has helped much through their inflexibility and lack of understanding of English football, or Championship football.



    Minority Report player of the match


    The only candidates I have this week are Sollbauer, Andersen and Mowatt. For his goal saving tackle in the first half, I have chosen Sollbauer.
     
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  2. red

    red24/7 Well-Known Member

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    Enjoyed reading but a few contradictions,Wigan played 4-5-1 so Moore never got a chance,later on you say our central defenders were faultless,not surprising in a team with no shots because you already said they were playing too deep,all this analysis is very interesting but it all boils down to we have got a bunch of kids with no man strength or game knowledge of championship players,reckon If crowds had been in and the pressure of this would have got to young lads we been down already
    Enjoyed reading it and you obviously care but if it making you angry writing it I wouldn’t bother
     
  3. Sup

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    A good read red rain.
    I feel that it says a lot about the state of things that your reports are now much more negative and directly criticise players and manager which is something they didn't do before.

    A few questions. Do you make notes during the games? Why don't you like reading the BBS when it's good? And how long does a report take?
     
  4. gaz

    gaz97 Well-Known Member

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    I’ve being saying all season that we should simplify things and play players in there proper positions but we’re constantly putting square pegs into round holes.
     
  5. ryc

    rycalshaw Well-Known Member

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    Mowatt always looks comfortable on the ball, but today i thought he looked very sluggish and immobile, his lack of pace will cost him a move to a championship club i think...hope so anyway
     
  6. Ged

    Geddiswasguud Well-Known Member

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    Interesting...agree with most of that. I would still argue that you are judging Woody post covid...and the 60% effort we have now....and styles i thought despite losing the ball twice in the first half, imho i believe he was bright and energetic willing to inject his game on the opposition and take the ball forward.
    Totally agree about their no.2 (who can play btw)...and the ref....who imho opinion sent off a man he shouldnt have (yellow) and booked a man he should have sent off ....he then gave a load of free kicks for the "invite contact" brigade...including the joke in the 2nd half where their no.2 clattered into his own keeper but because we had a player near gave them a free kick!!
    At the moment we seem to lack any kind of way to score (we dont look like we are going to either) and as ive been mentioning for ages our set pieces are truely woeful, to a point where free kicks and corners, i go put the kettle on!
     
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  7. Ged

    Geddiswasguud Well-Known Member

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    I think thats his Achilles heel...he has no pace but i still believe he has probably been our best player over the season (imho) and without him we lack invention and calmness in posession...he also looks much better when Bahre is in the team.
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
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  8. wolvestyke

    wolvestyke Well-Known Member

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    Good report RR and I agree with almost all of it.

    I want to comment in particular on your thoughts about them managing the game and the referee. I felt exactly the same thing about their fullback - Nathan Byrne wasn't it. Twenty/thirty years ago we had a problem with diving, initially for penalties (Francis Lee style), which then extended to diving outside the area when tackled. It's now deteriorated further and I firmly believe players are coached to get their body in between the player and the ball, wait for a touch and then fall over. It is now rife in the game and I'd suggest there are probably 10-20 fouls per game that wouldn't have been given 30 years ago. I agree that the game is much poorer for it. And I'm alarmed at the degree to which it's accepted and even considered good play. On iFollow yesterday I was shouting at the TV when our own Bobby Hassell (I think it may even have been after one of Byrne's 'dives') commented that he'd bought the free kick and it was good play. Similar comments are made on most live games on Sky and on MoTD.

    Sad and disgraceful that cheating has now become associated with good play and part of what makes top players good.
     
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  9. Ged

    Geddiswasguud Well-Known Member

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    Spot on...i think fouls are given now for "brush pasts" in paticular a guy is clearing his line and a player just goes near the opposing player in an attempt to close him down and goes fairly near.......reaction the clearing player, spins ....usually grabbing an ankle or another part of his anotomy and screaming as he does so.....result instant free kick.
     
  10. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    That's it. Right there, for me. Our season was done in July/August last year.
     
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  11. lk3

    lk311 Well-Known Member

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    Think this probably one of most accurate overviews of this season personally.
     
  12. Tarntyke

    Tarntyke Well-Known Member

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    A good read and thanks for posting it. I particularly wholeheartedly agree with the ‘experienced players managing the game and referee. This is one aspect that has really annoyed me all season, even considering our youthful naivety we have never learned from this. From not being in the ref‘s ear to allowing opposition to buy free-kicks. I have also been in many discussions on here about whether a ref has been bias or not. If a ref takes the easy option of being conned by a more experienced player ( and much of the time I’m convinced he knows he has been conned) simply because it doesn’t matter about our kid’s who rarely complain and don’t constantly take issue with him. Then he is biased. I don’t know whether I’m more angry at the refs or our players for not learning to manage this
     
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2020
  13. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    As I said, the Wigan game plan was built upon defending deep and hoping that we made mistakes so they could take advantage on the break. We did make mistakes, and in that case, the two centre backs must read the game well so they are in the right place to intercept, make the block or make the tackle. Moore was largely cut off, but that does not mean that our two centre backs were totally unemployed. They were not, and they were always in the right place because of the way that they read the game.
     
  14. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    No, I do not make notes, and on top of that, my memory is poor. However, I do not write about individual incidents. I write about overall impressions, tactics and formations and for that you are looking for patterns of play and not individual incidents so much. The patterns or play are less easy to see through the lens of the camera, because I cannot always look where I want to look because the camera follows the ball. That is why I have begun my recent reports with a warning. I am relying very much more on what I think should be happening, rather than saying exactly what happened because I saw it live, so there will be mistakes.

    Yesterday, I was very disappointed and my original report reflected my disappointment more than my final report. Most of the time, I tend to look for reasons why a coach did what he did, rather than looking for reasons why what a coach did was wrong. I also give the coach the benefit of any doubt far longer than most do, mainly because they are professionals, and they know far more about the game than I do. As a mere reporter who is outside the box, I also have less knowledge about the reasons decisions were taken, and when you do not know the full facts, there is a second reason for giving those in the know the benefit of any doubt. However, I think Struber (like Stendel) is too focused upon what worked for them in the past, and perhaps worked at a lower level. What works when you have better individuals than the opposition has in a lower league, will not necessarily work in a higher league when the individuals are inferior to (or less experienced than) their opponents. I think that our last two coaches have made that mistake. They have not adapted to changed conditions, and if that happens, they deserve to be questioned.

    The BBS tends to over-react. It over-reacts after we win a few games and and it over-reacts after we lose a few. It works almost entirely on the basis of emotion, and that is fine if that is what you want. I am more into logic, and the logical mind knows that things are never as good as they are painted, or as bad. I prefer to stay away from over-reaction in both directions as it can colour subsequent reactions where team results begin to go in the opposite direction.

    The reports are not an instant reaction. They are written after a period of reflection. In normal circumstances, I walk home after games. I live in Wombwell, and the walk home can take one and a half hours. During that walk, I am thinking and reflecting upon what I have seen, trying to establish a context and trying to think of reasons why x or y happened, rather than just assuming it was individual incompetence or individual brilliance. By the time I get home, I begin writing straight away, but I continue to review what I have written in order to make sure that it passes the tests that I set (does this make sense and does it fit completely with what I have seen). The BBS does not work like that. It works on instant short reaction, and it works to let people post their emotions, as soon as they have them. That makes my reporting style unusual, and that is why I decided to call it Minority Report. I am in the Minority, and I do not mind.
     
  15. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    That's the system and formation I watched. I was reading elsewhere that Woodrow played upfront which made me question if I'd been watching the right game.
     
  16. sadbrewer

    sadbrewer Well-Known Member

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    Just as a matter of interest, what do you think of the Wigan game plan bearing in mind this was a must win, just as much for them as us ?
     
  17. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    If we had won, they were 4 points behind us (adjusted for deduction) and 4 points takes a bit of getting back. I think that they will be confident that they can get a point more than us given the remaining fixtures. They are two points behind Luton and 3 behind Hull but once again, I think that they will be confident that they can win more of their remaining games than Luton and Hull. Then there is the punishment due for Sheffield Wednesday, which could put them bottom.
     
  18. YTB

    YTBFC Well-Known Member

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    Woodrow started up front, Simoes in the '10' as the cool kids call it. It was also a back five (wingbacks). But, whether it looked like that throughout is up for debate I suppose.

    I've seen us play Wigan at home twice in the last four years, with two completely different squads on show, two different coaching teams, two different owners/boards, and both times it was a 0-0 bore draw.

    Won 2, drawn 3 and lost one of the games since restart, reduced the deficit to safety to three points from seven. It's gone better than most will have anticipated. But I imagine we need to win at least two of the final three, and even then, who knows?

    Wigan should have been reduced to 10 about 40 minutes earlier than they were. Should have had three sent off. Different game if fairness applied. Fine margins.

    Good read though, RR. I tend to catch up on fan-thoughts on a Sunday morning. I don't read the immediate stuff on Saturday nights.
     
  19. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    I assume that you were at the game and that you have access to more behind the scenes information than I do. I have pointed out at length that my view of the game might be wrong because I am watching through someone else's camera work. However, I struggle with the suggestion that Styles was playing wing back, or that Simoes was playing deeper than Woodrow. I am going to have to go away and have a think, because what I wrote made perfect sense, and what you have written does not. You are saying that we played a back 5 against a team with just 1 forward. Amazing if true.
     
  20. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    I don't think what you and Whitey have said differ that much in terms of how the defence set up. Wigan attacked so rarely that we barely saw the defenders in their defensive formation. Far more often we saw them in their attacking formation, and you both have the same on that. Three central defenders, styles pushing forward on the left, Ludwig on the right, whether they're called wingers, wide midfielders, wing backs or advanced full backs doesn't really matter, they're doing the same job.
     
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