No deal Brexit it is then

To be fair, if you were to hold a fair true referendum that was campaigned honestly on merit, defining the leave outcome with an initial referendum or series would be the better way. The likeliest outcome would be staying in the customs union and single market as you'd have the remain voters stacking up on that.

And when you consider that versus remaining, its obvious remaining is the better option of the two, even based on the governments impact assessments they were loathe to release in advance, or even after!

Anything with two series would at least give direction of travel, and a plate of faecal matter wouldn't be what we'd be dining out on for New years day lunch... and every meal thereafter.

 

#2 The British government were one of the reasons behind stopping the EU responding to the Chinese dumping steel. We need to buy vast quantities of steel for HS2 and it would save the UK a lot of money to buy Chinese steel rather than British.

#3 For better or worse, Thatcher changed Britain and only a small amount of our economy is manufacturing - usually niche or specialised products or assembly of products made from parts manufactured elsewhere (cars, etc). For years, manufacturing has been going East, as have services, but that is the area what we are genuinely good at. We do things for people - from Creative Arts, design, to legal, IT and business support services. This gave us a really good platform to trade globally and be the European base for large multinationals who wanted an English-native speaking foothold into the EU. We probably needed to change the school curriculum a decade ago to prioritize the skills that are needed across Europe, but the long term effect will be a brain-drain of the qualified and experienced people we've got. At the moment, I am less-employable for a job in my field with European travel despite 20+ years of experience than an EU-passport holder who lives here and has 1-2 years experience. This isn't just high skilled jobs, its also things like air crew, holiday reps, and other jobs that working class kids did.

 

Just because someone says something doesn't make it true.

Example - Farage saying Turkey joining the EU.

Example - Johnson saying 350 million a week will go to the NHS.

Example - Me saying I'm going to raise a family with Scarlett Johansson.

Once more.

https://fullfact.org/online/EU-army-conscription/

Thank you.

 

You are correct the A/V referendum was the only binding vote ever held.

 

I know some people who voted leave but would not have done so if they knew it would mean a no deal exit.

For them it's a bit like being asked whether you want Indian or Chinese for tea by your partner, saying Indian and then having them force feed you a dopiaza made from dog **** whilst repeatedly telling you that it was your choice.

 

Do you know the story of why "Leave" wasn't defined before the referendum? (and still isn't).

There was a competition in the early 2010s organized by one of the Leave groups to define a version of Leave they could all get behind. This had a number of entries, ranging from complete burning the bridges separation, through Flexit, SM/CU, phased separation and everything in between. The fun started when it came around to selecting a winner. It turns out that none of the judges could agree on which one to support, and the competition collapsed into an intense slagging match before it was abandoned.

That is why there was no version of Leave defined - because they knew that as soon as it was written down it would lose enough votes to lose any referendum, but together they could win.

 

It should have been done on transferable vote with 3 options - leave with a defined deal, leave with no deal or remain. That would have been the fairest way to do it by far.

 

Have you been seeing Scarlett Johansson behind my back?!!!!
You b***rd!!!

 

It's always been obvious why Leave was never defined. If you don't write it down, you can be as mendacious as you want.

 

What a brilliant analogy

 

Oops I didn't see someone had already used the **** sandwich analogy, I wasn't copying.

 

Oh no, i was just going for a full neat plate of the stuff, didn't want to dumb it down with bread ;-)

I mean you could stick a little US flag in the top so you know its the good stuff ;-)

 

Whilst my comment was never intended to be a we won you lost type of thing , what you say is true fonzie, we did win and you lost

it must be awful for intellectuals like yourself who know that us leave voters were hoodwinked by the right wing press and that you are unable to do the slightest thing about it..

I’ve tried to explain many times that I have always been in favour of leaving the eu, forty years of being brought up in the coal industry with a union that was anti eu, forty years of listening to the likes of Dennis skinner, tony benn, Jeremy Corbyn , .. these are the people that influenced my political views and not the right wing candidates you lot wheel out in an effort to discredit the leave win.

I have yet to come across a single person who voted leave that has now changed their mind because they thought they were pillock Ed , it is only the interlectuals like yourself that feel like this.

btw, I don’t mind cracking on, I did vote leave and would do again without a second thought.

 

At least you're honest - fair play, can't argue.

With regards to your experience in the coal industry, I presume you didn't vote Conservative?

I think you're hugely wrong and it'll cost us dearly, but I can't fault honesty for once.

 

They exist.

https://whatukthinks.org/eu/questions/if-a-second-eu-referendum-were-held-today-how-would-you-vote/

 

Didn't someone state exactly that they regretted their vote the next morning in the first pages of this very thread?

Also plenty of people on the @RemainerNow Twitter account over the years that have changed their minds.

 

Grim and completely disingenuous of yet another governmental parrot.

I'm completely sure this govt want a deal now having seen the histrionics of today, constantly repeating the same lines, failing to state for certain they are walking away. Its just a desperate last minute attempt to bully the EU into giving up more, when the EU are just watching on with amused faces thinking, really, do you really think we're falling for this false show of bravado?

Johnson hates to look a failure, he absolutely wants to be able to say he negotiated something that he'll appraise to be a world beating deal (even though it won't be), just before he exits stage far right, and the next tory leader tries to pretend the tories are just starting out in power.

 

Cracking stuff from Gove earlier today regarding National Security. When Theresa May has you on the hop, you know you've fcked it.

I'll paraphrase for those who haven't seen it, but basically with No Deal we'll lose access to the database that houses details of all the nasty illegal immigrant terrorists that we are taking back control from.

But yay, No Deal. Oven Ready. We hold all the cards.

 

I’m a fully paid-up remoaner but I don’t understand the exclusion of the UK from projects such as these just because we have chosen to leave. It’s in everyone’s interest to have more countries given access, not restricted.