Does that go for over half the voting population? Do you think that over half the voting popultation voted for Brexit because of anything Boris said, or because of what was put on the side of a bus? Does the same go for the last election, when we ended up with a massive Tory majority? Do you think that the Daily Mail decides who runs the country? You'll find a nice soft audience on here who'll blame anyone but themselves for the mess we're in.
No it's not like that at all...it's just the fact of being independent and our politicians being accountable to the electorate for their decisions..carrying out those decisions without 27 other countries of he EU deciding what legislation is enacted and in some cases hiding behind it...The Scots are having that argument now...which I comletely understand, even though I hope they stop with us,. Would you say The Scots are being conned...and just saying Ah well I'll live with it?
We didnt accept the Euro. We had a lot of bargaining power that we've now thrown away. If we could be self sufficient then I could maybe understand coming out of Europe but we're not.
Those things that we already were, and already ready had. I’m sure you’ll be able to provide a long list of EU directives that have made things worse. Absolute best of luck to the scots. I wouldn’t want to stay aligned to this country for any minute longer, and that’s not because of some sort of imaginary oppression your lot have fostered, it’s because we are are bit shït. They deserve better.
I have some pride in my country for all the fantastic things we've done in technology and the arts etc. Howerver, something that makes me feel ashamed of my country is the behaviour of some British people abroad, particularly when they've had a drink.
I particularly love this revisionist nonsense and naivety of many nowadays - particularly in my generation - around Britain's role in the second world war. Like there is nothing to be proud of, and if anything, the idea of any sort of British victory is distasteful and repugnant. To response to the OP, yes, my grandad did fight in the war. And so did his father, who also fought in the first world war, and lost a brother. My grandmother also drove ambulances in this country throughout the Blitz. She claimed that it was the bombing of Sheffield that sent her father mad - he was shocked and devastated. I am absolutely proud of all their efforts. If you want to paint everyone involved in the war as imperialist, jingoistic pigs, be my guest. I think that is what you was getting at. Absolutely, there are parts of the second world war that don't paint the British with much glory. The bombing of Germany, wholly disproportionate, for instance. You might claim it was the Russians that won the war. Granted, they shouldered the greatest burden on land. But this approach is far too reductionist. Britain was involved in a number of key theaters and achieved several key victories. The Battle of Britain, perhaps chief among them. We get it, you don't like your country. It's fashionable to be anti-British. It's even more fashionable to be pro-globalism and cosmopolitan (globalism really, really, has served the masses so well!). That's fine. But if you begin searching for country that doesn't have a chequered history, or a nation that hasn't been carried away by nationalist fervor at some point or another, you'll be searching forever more. My country has some rotten parts in its history. But I love it. It's a far better country than many and I am unbelievably lucky to have been born and raised here. Today, whilst we are far, far from being a great power, we are still at the leading edge on many fronts. I'm proud of my fellow Brits inhabiting this weird little rock in the North Atlantic. It's home.
It’s the cost of doing business. If spending 9bn brings in 100s of billions in trade it’s a bargain. To close down my last business, I just shut down the website. Saving me quite a bit of website admin time and £70 a year. But shutting it down cost me about £5k a year in profit. Your logic says I’m £70 a year better off.
First things first. I think many, if not most on here, would have parents, grandparents, relations who either fought or played their part in the war. My OP was not intended in any way to belittle what they did. We and they should be proud of it and what they did should never be forgotten. That first point was questioning the myth of Britain ‘winning the war.’ That national story had to be created after what people had gone through. But both the Russians and Americans are convinced they played the most important part in defeating the Nazis so all three can’t be right. All fought but all three played vital and different roles. Maybe it was Stalin who best summed it up. “The Americans supplied the money, the Russians paid in blood and the British bought the time.” As far as revisionism goes, some of the greatest rewriting of history occurred during the war. The fact that the war began with the Nazis and Soviets as allies (and they remained so until 1941) was something that had to he hastily rewritten then forgotten when the Nazis invaded the Soviet Union. During the war over half the country was enthusiastic about bombing Germany into cites into extinction. We got a bit squeamish afterwards. As far as the death camps go, both Churchill and Roosevelt decided all that should be covered up. And it was. They no longer wanted to demonise the German people due to the looming threat of the Soviets. If you’re interested look up “Night will Fall.” The two western powers turned people’s eyes away from the true horror of war and concentrated on the glory. Only when the Jews brought the Holocaust to public attention in the 60s was that fully accepted. But the Holocaust is only part of what went on. Millions of other innocent civilians were exterminated by both the Nazis and the Soviets during the war in Central Europe. My own family were among them. Only one boy survived and he would grow up to be my father. What he went through at the hands of the Nazis, Soviets and British, few would even believe possible. It’s a miracle I’m here at all. The creation of the British myth was understandable at the time but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t look again. And yes, I love my countries. Both of them.
I get what you’re saying but it’s as though you’re saying if we don’t pay the £9 billion a year we lose the billions in trade. It won’t happen. We have a trade deficit with the EU to the tune of around £80 billion a year. Our exports to non EU countries are rising(14% last year) and will rise further. The world is a massive supermarket, and we will be able to take advantage of that and tailor trade deals to our needs, not the EU’s(80% of out gdp is services). Not saying it’s going to be easy but long term, better off out!!!!
Brexit has already cost us more than we ‘gave’ to the EU. That’s not a ‘possibly might happen’ it’s a fact. Just the extra paperwork at the border will cost more than our membership. It’d be great if we were genuinely going to benefit financially, but I know several economists working in government, and they’re not preparing for the economy booming following a no deal Brexit. Im sorry, but you’re clinging onto lies you were told.