Can anyone explain

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by SuperTyke, Nov 29, 2020.

  1. Archey

    Archey Well-Known Member

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    I think the issue is, we're picking a formation, and picking our 11 best players, and making them fit regardless of where they're playing.

    Honestly I think Styles can play left wing back, but he's such a good midfielder, it seems a waste having him there.

    I personally think I'd prefer Williams in the back 3 instead of Anderson, but again, you could argue its a square peg in a round hole.
     
  2. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    I agree with that assessment. However, both goals we conceded came from forays down our left. Every match we're put under pressure from forays down our left. Even in games we've won, a hell of a lot of crosses have come into the area from our left, but we've managed to deal with them or we've got away with some profligate finishing by the opposition. It's not happening a few times, it's happening dozens of times.

    We've got some decent players and even the squad members who haven't quite got that quality definitely put a shift in. No doubt the manager has everyone motivated. But we're not addressing our huge gaping hole of a weakness. Every manager in the league knows it and they're all exploiting it.
     
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  3. Hooky feller

    Hooky feller Well-Known Member

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    This ^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    The BBS So many experienced managers. :)
    Not so sure the board insisted on the Style. As much as looked at managers who could follow one another having the same philosophy. A high pressing game. (the last 3 managers were renowned for that style) The managers need the correct tools for the job. That’s the boards concern. I don’t think we are that far away.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
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  4. Sup

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    I think people are misunderstanding and think I'm suggesting we're crap or the manager is crap etc. I'm not.

    I'm simply saying that when the board chooses our style of play and the board chooses players to fit that style of play and the board chooses managers specifically to suit that style of play how do we end up in a situation where we have a style of play that the players don't all suit? It isn't a recent thing either, under struber half the squad didn't suit

    I'd say someone needs to get off football manager and stop thinking that because they're rich kids they can pick a football team
     
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  5. lk3

    lk311 Well-Known Member

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    Would suspect it down to two reasons, generally we buy players who we see potential in to develop, sometimes they work, sometimes they don’t. Even the ones that do become established are still relevantly young and prone to mistakes.

    The second is because we are generally made up from the above, when everyone does their job we are a good team, it’s when someone becomes a ‘weak link’ either by form or error the rest of the team are not good enough to compensate for them.

    Personally I dont think we are far away and are on the right track but in the meantime we will have experience not so good days from time time.
     
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  6. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    I did not watch the game at Blackburn, so none of these comments relate principally to that game.

    As far as I know, the owners have only said that they want to have a pressing style. Under their tenure, we have had Stendel (4-4-2 + press), Struber (4-diamond-2 or 4-3-1-2 + press) and Ismael (3-4-3). They are not insisting on a system. Rather, they are mandating a general style. Within that style, many systems and methods of play are possible. However, the style does mandate the type of front player we sign, because it implies that hard working will be the principal qualification. You cannot play a press if your front players are not hard working. However, Ismael did not play a press in the last two home games. He played a deeper block. Does that mean that he is unwilling to go along with the owner philosophy, or did he simply want to try something different? I do not know, but I found it interesting.

    For me, our current problems do not emanate from the press. I think that our current problems emanate from 3-4-3, and it is that system that does not suit the players. Andersen and Sollbauer are perfectly happy in the centre of a back 4. Neither are quick, but both are tall, strong and can win the ball in the air, which is the main job of a centre back. When you ask them to play full back, which they are required to do when covering for the wing back, they are going to need pace. Repeatedly, their lack of pace is apparent as they fail to stop the cross.

    Our 3-4-3 is not the sort that becomes 5-4-1 when we are out of possession. Instead, the front 3 remain high and the coach hopes that the implied threat will keep their back 4 deep. It worked for a while, but in my opinion, the system has been rumbled because of the space at wing back, and particularly, left wing back. However, assuming we keep our front players high, when we recover possession, they need to create the space to allow those deeper to find them with a pass. To do this, the front players must have pace. For me, the lack of pace up front is the biggest obstacle to the success of the system. An even bigger problem than the lack of a decent share of possession. You just do not fix that problem unless you have a lot of money to spend. Players with pace, who can also finish are rare.

    So you can go through our front players and you can list those who work hard (press) and who have pace and can finish. I bet that you come to the same total as me. In fairness, most systems will leave us short of a few players. However, 3-4-3 leaves us short of lots.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
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  7. Kettlewell

    Kettlewell Well-Known Member

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    Good analysis, I don't know why the manager keeps persevering when we don't have the strikers. It maybe that they might be coming in January but until then put another player in midfield, where we never have control.
     
  8. YTB

    YTBFC Well-Known Member

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    I didn't really go into any specific areas, mine was just a general take on the game. But your comments had me wondering. So I've watched all of the goals we've conceded in the league so far, and here's the results of that.

    Goal 1 - Mpanzu beats Andersen just outside the box centrally, to head into the path of Collins who blasts in an unbelievable strike.

    Goal 2 - Ludewig doesn't get his header clear from a corner to the near post, Meite beats Chaplin at the far post twice before bundling it in.

    Goal 3 - Ludewig fails to get his clearance right from a corner near post, falls to Olise who rockets it in from 25 yards.

    Goal 4 - Long range free-kick hits the bar, spoons high into the air, Styles and J.Williams are both beaten to the next header, it falls to Howson who drives it in from six yards out totally unmarked.

    Goal 5 - Corner is poor but not cleared, their man is allowed room to shoot on the edge of the box, Collins can't hold or parry it away and Akpom slots in from two yards out.

    Goal 6 - From our own corner, Bristol break and Helik fails to hook a long ball clear, they run in on goal and Walton saves twice before another shot is blocked, the ball runs nicely for Martin to set up Jack Hunt who via a deflection, blasts it in from 14 yards on the angle.

    Goal 7 - Cross from the byline on the right is more like a shot, Walton parries it out, it drops to the edge of the box for Bakinson whose poor shot deflects off J.Williams and goes in.

    Goal 8 - Souttar brings the ball out of defence unopposed and feeds it into the forward, Helik decides to slide in and misses it, Campbell sprints through and curls beyond Walton.

    Goal 9 - Walton drops a deep cross unopposed and Smith puts it into the empty net.

    Goal 10 - Cooper gets away from Helik at a corner, uses his own player to lift himself above Andersen and heads in.

    Goal 11 - We allow Bennett to cross after a quick throw, Helik tries to head it, but fails, it drops to Hoilett who handles it to bring it down and turns to fire in.

    Goal 12 - Helik slides into Wilson inside the box, penalty, they score.

    Goal 13 - Wilson picks up the ball 25 yards out, in space and curls home a great goal.

    Goal 14 - Toney loses Helik and has a free run at a near post corner, wonderful header drops in at the far post.

    Goal 15 - Andersen beaten for pace down our left side, Nyambe cuts back to unmarked Armstrong (because Helik has tried to come across to slide block the cross, Armstrong scores.

    Goal 16 - Oduor beaten on our left, cross is headed by Helik to the edge of the box and Gallagher scores from 20 yards.


    Not sure there's any blatant left-sided issue regards those 16 goals conceded. But we clearly have a problem at clearing the ball from crosses/set plays. It's obvious that there aren't many goals in there that would leave you thinking/saying "great goal, couldn't do much there". So plenty to work at and get better on.

    I've done my best to add to the conversation, and I'm never going to start naming players etc, obviously, but I'll repeat what I said earlier - I think we are doing well this season. We've stepped forward in my opinion. And I think all the players offer something, the atmosphere is good, the gaffer has come in seamlessly, and I don't actually give too much thought to shapes, goals, weaknesses, strengths and all that. Not really my job or a hobby of mine. So long as I can see effort and us compete, I'm going to be happy, because I know our limitations and know just how hard it is for us to compete financially at this level.

    I do though like reading the thoughts of fans on here and elsewhere.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
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  9. Dja

    Django Well-Known Member

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    Another overreaction. At the most there’s 1 player not comfortable in that system & that’s Anderson playing on the left of the back 3. I’d prefer Jordan Williams there who looked very comfortable there last season.

    Styles looks comfortable at left wing back as does Brittain at RWB.

    Frieser, Thomas & Chaplin aren’t struggling because of the system they’re struggling because they’re limited players at this level.

    We outplayed Blackburn & created more than them but they were more clinical. It really is as simple as that. We need better quality around Woodrow if we want to do more than just stay up by a few points.

    On the whole I don’t think there’s a great deal wrong. Whether we like it or not we’re one of the weaker sides at this level & unless you hit the jackpot with recruitment or unearth a few diamonds from your academy frustrating games like yesterday will always happen. Play as well as that most weeks & we should put the ball in the net most weeks.
     
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  10. budmustang

    budmustang Well-Known Member

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    This idea that Barnsley are weak down the left hand side... Could it be that all systems have their weaknesses and the weakness of playing with wing backs is being open to getting exploited in behind? Why the left specifically? Cos we have Brittain and Sollbauer on the right and they're bloody good!

    Oh, and when you look at the standard of players the opposition get to attack us down our left: Elliott, Nyambe, Mbuemo, Lolley, Waghorn, Wilson, Femenia, Adomah, Wallace etc. Styles and Andersen have done well overall I'd say.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
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  11. Sup

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    I loved that analysis red rain. I don't necessarily agree with it all (though I agree with much) but I really do d that a great read. I don't want to criticise or anything but may I suggest that if you do your minority reports without the first paragraph that you usually do where you explain how you see games different etc and get straight to the report itself like you have hear then you will get a lot of people reading and discussing your reports.


    How easily can you find all our goals whitey? Do you have to watch the highlights until a goal happens like we do or can you literally just bring up a specific goal? Your post made me curious and you know how much your job fascinates me.

    I quite like how you have named players who have made mistakes for goals there but you haven't criticised or made any kind of judgement at all it's just a fair unbiased description of what happened and is very interesting information too because you forget just how things happened earlier in a season.
     
  12. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

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    I will bear your thoughts in mind, but I do love a bit of purple prose, if I'm honest.
     
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  13. YTB

    YTBFC Well-Known Member

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    I don't have anything magical that just brings up a goal. I've a mountain of footage saved to an external drive. In one folder, I've the short highlights from every game since I've worked here, another folder with the full games, another with all the photos, all the post-match interviews, etc etc. Then a folder with every angle of every goal we've scored in that time. Which has increased over time.

    So I just looked through the conceded goals one by one. Because I was interested to look back myself and see if there was anything obvious.

    I only named each player involved because it's easier to describe. If I'd replaced names with 'player' it would have looked daft.
     
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  14. Sup

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    You could have used squad numbers, we'd have never worked out who you meant then ;)

    You definitely need that magic button so you can just bring everything up. Have a word with Dane.
     
  15. YTB

    YTBFC Well-Known Member

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    Magic button for me is May 2021 when I can have three weeks holiday.
     
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  16. Tyke_67

    Tyke_67 Well-Known Member

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    and it will be a well deserved holiday mate :)
     
  17. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    There's so much bias in that. "Andersen beaten for pace down the side"? Anderson beaten for pace down the left! Come on man, try it without bias.
     
  18. ley

    leythtyke Well-Known Member

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    I think on of our biggest problems is that we don’t have many, if any, players that are particularly good headers of the ball. Both Frieser and Woodrow struggle to hit the target with their head, and we should’ve scored at least two from our corners yesterday.

    The header clearance for their second was very poor. We don’t seem to attack the ball with any conviction when going for headers.

    As for what system we should play, we need to play three at the back with wing backs because Williams is the only orthodox full back at the club
     
  19. sav

    savemyday Well-Known Member

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    Could it be that we’re okay and everyone at every level conceded goals that are preventable, and that’s fine?
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2020
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  20. YTB

    YTBFC Well-Known Member

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    You mean, like the next one that says Oduor is beaten on our left? I'll edit it just for you. Because there's no bias at all. It was a simple summary of each goal. Which gave me the impression that we struggle to deal with crosses from either side, be that in-play or from set-pieces. I didn't see a big left-sided issue.

    But that was your summary. Based on one game, the most recent game, having conceded two goals down that side.

    After we drew 3-3 at Wolves in 1996/97 I said to my mate inside Molineux, "Watson is ****, we need a new 'keeper."
     

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