More Politics (sorry): NIP

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Gravy Chips, Mar 31, 2021.

  1. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    A decent thread here.
     
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  2. sel

    selby Well-Known Member

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    Clive Lewis never even stood for leadership so to be fair he can say what he wants.

    I would say moving away from the previous leadership is implementing wholesale changes isn't it?

    Starmer is the man to lead the party and will gain more support going towards 2024 and I suspect if a pact is needed and parties can agree it will happen.
     
  3. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    I don't disagree at all that Labour have very little chance of winning with the way Scotland has evolved and the way Wales is following suit. I suspect there will be plenty in the northern seats who also feel they can continue voting for DePfeffel so it gets tougher still.

    The problem however. Play out what the tories and their supportive media would say. Look at the fear they have spread at past elections of how if you vote labour, you get Sturgeon. Thats just a small taste of what we could see if centre and left tried to unite to get rid of this vile bunch.

    They know they can't win. They want to fix it to win. They are afraid of being beaten. They are cowards. They want to change the system because they know they will lose.

    Are the sorts of things you'll hear constantly. And you only have to look at the last election with Swinson and how the media hounded her to accept they couldn't win outright.

    It's all an absolute mess, and now that lies are legitimised... and DePfeffel even broke purdah rules the other day in trying to influence votes in the London Mayoral election... nothing is off limits to them.

    I don't see how any of this changes until DePfeffel and the tories come a cropper of their own making and something finally rings true in the eyes of the electorate. Maybe violence in NI, maybe fraud. Maybe more covid deaths. Maybe corruption. Maybe infidelity. Maybe brexit fall out. Maybe unemployment. Maybe all of them. But little seems to be sticking at the minute.
     
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2021
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  4. Don

    Donny-Red Well-Known Member

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    it’ll take the reality of Brexit and the mess the economy is really in to hit home. But it’ll have to be serious to crack through the sycophantic press.

    The modern world has no concerns about politicians who lie (they all do it), are incompetent (they all are), are corrupt (they all are), have affairs (they all do it). And all of this enabled by the press.
     
  5. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    wholesale changes in what way? Is he campaigning for PR? Has he set forth bold ambitious plans for the future? Has he announced talks with other parties to say remove the HOL? If he doesn’t know that a pact and electoral change is needed now then he is the wrong person for the job as Corbyn was.

    Lewis did stand but is perhaps a little too ‘black’ for the PLP to get very far on the contest.
     
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  6. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    Agree with a lot of that. It’s why you make the argument for change now so it dominates the narrative now rather than let it dominate the election.
     
  7. sel

    selby Well-Known Member

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    All the moaning in this thread about where the party are going you would assume there had been wholesale changes since the last leadership?

    I'm not sure you can claim racism was the reason Lewis pulled out of the leadership unless you have evidence of that of course?
     
  8. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    Is it going to dominate the narrative during a pandemic off the back of brexit with the government keen on stirring up a culture war? I'm not sure how that gets the bandwidth to get into the luggoles of those who need to listen, hear and alter their voting intention.

    The thing I meant to mention before too... the coalition years. The LibDems did actually manage to dilute the tories a little, despite the constant attacks they took for their efforts. Their reward. Losing loads of seats at the next election and becoming a near irrelevance. I'm not sure if the appetite of the UK electorate is especially keen on sharing and are all too het up for a winner and a loser.
     
  9. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    to be clear. Corbyn wasn’t the person to lead Labour because he was unable to grasp post Scotland Electoral dynamics and Starmer isn’t for the same reason. Labour was going nowhere now it’s going nowhere fast.

    Structural racism is just as rife in Labour as anywhere else in U.K. society. How many BAME leaders has Labour had? How many BAME deputy leaders has Labour had. How many women leaders?
     
  10. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    the LiBDems as a CL party where beyond daft politically to people up Cameron. Again pre election clear pacts with broad policy agreements are the way forwards not ad hoc reactions.

    you are right. With the pandemic it’s the best time of all to announce and make the arguments and if it’s kept off the new cycle all the better.
     
  11. arabian_ian

    arabian_ian Well-Known Member

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    Sounds a good deal to me
     
  12. sel

    selby Well-Known Member

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    So you don't have any evidence this was the case?
     
  13. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    Again how many black leaders have Labour had. Just a number no deflection.
     
  14. sel

    selby Well-Known Member

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    I'm not deflecting anything it seems you are? You know the answer and I'm assuming you also know that calling something racist that clearly isn't doesn't help anything it does the opposite.

    The Labour Party has a varied and diverse set of MPs that work very hard promoting diversity throughout the UK.
     
  15. BarnsleyReds

    BarnsleyReds Well-Known Member

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    It's 4 times, but not all of those were Labour victories that would otherwise have been a loss.

    Feb. 1974 was a Labour Minority Govt (until October that year). Without Scotland would have been Tory Minority Govt.
    October that year was a Labour majority, without Scotland would have been a Labour Minority Govt.

    2010 would have been a Tory majority, rather than a coalition.

    So in reality only once did Scotland swing the vote from Tory to Labour. In 1964.
     
  16. Dja

    Django Well-Known Member

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    Most of Labour’s BAME MP’s are socialists & are treat like **** in the party.
     
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  17. sel

    selby Well-Known Member

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    Rubbish....
     
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  18. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    just waiting for an answer to the initial question then we can move onto the potential reasons for that. Labour on equalities is massively behind all other parties even the tories.
     
  19. JamieBreweryStander

    JamieBreweryStander Well-Known Member

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    If Labour make a deal with the Lib Dems they can **** right off for me. Another basically Tory lite party. Might as well be a vote for the conservatives.
     
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  20. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    It’s not about making deals. It’s about having a vision of where you do or don’t want your society to go. Look at the deals Arden made in her first term in NZ. Not natural allied but she made the decision to engage to move towards a better future. In the U.K. FPTP encourages us to have a football fan view of politics. It’s not served us well we need to move away from it.
     
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