Stones

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board ARCHIVE' started by Homer, Nov 15, 2016.

  1. Hom

    Homer Well-Known Member

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    Watched last couple of England games and although Stones is good in the air his ground play is atrocious. He dawdles with the ball and has to have a little jig and puts himself up the creek. His passing is then direct to a player with defenders on their back and they then loose the ball. He passes down goal line to keeper , or back to keeper who has little time to clear. Is this the result of two managers tinkering with his play. I think Martinez spoilt him and he lost form for a spell at Everton, and now Guardiola has got him and all the City team confused. Stones is a very good player but needs a little advice from the coaches to get him back on song
     
  2. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    I don't rate him. Well, that's not true, he's clearly a good player, but compared to England centre halves of the past I just don't see him being even close. He's a great lad, pleased he's at a big club doing well, hope he has a great career and I'm almost always wrong about players, but I've never seen him have a good game.

    Sorry, I know that's sacrilege.
     
  3. Gordon Owen

    Gordon Owen Well-Known Member

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    England centre halves have been toss for years, probably why we've won so much.
     
  4. twi

    twillo Well-Known Member

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    Stones is a very good player but can't help but think he'd be better sitting in front of the back four.
    On his day, his passing is class but he has a lot of off days as well.
    I do think Gary Cahill is the number one centre half if he gets regular football at Chelsea. I also think Stones is probably the next best central defender after him at the moment. One thing that would be interesting is John Terry getting back to full fitness and playing week in, week out before the March international and then announces he's coming out of retirement.
     
  5. Terry Nutkins

    Terry Nutkins Well-Known Member

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    I think he's struggling, having said that he's not had a bad game tonight. If I take my rose tinted glasses off, he gives me the heebie jeebies overtime but I hope that over time he gets it. He reminds me of McDonald when he got into the team (granted for different reasons and I'm not comparing their skill level in a Hemsworth way).

    At the moment theres a mistake around every corner, theres a significant chance of one that will cause a goal or two. The problem is he's now under the spotlight, he's playing for England, he's just gone for almost a world record fee for a defender and thats highlighting him.

    I like the fact that he wants to play, but **** me, sometimes you have to just get rid. His problems stem from him actually carrying the ball into Cul De Sac situations and then overplaying (The best example when he tried to get it to Dier after standing on it for too long).

    If you watch the greats of the past they could play and be comfortable on the ball but its always low risk, high reward. He seems to be going the opposite way. I think given time he'll get better and work it out, but he needs to have a remarkable strength of character because given where he's playing for club and country he might not have that time to get it.

    He could be a world beater but he needs direction imho, not that Pep isn't the right man for that job. Just hope the media and social media hold off in their vitriol.
     
  6. Don

    DonnyTyke Well-Known Member

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    Englands defence in recent years has been one of the best about and numbers will back that up. Ferdinand and Terry era in particular.


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  7. Gordon Owen

    Gordon Owen Well-Known Member

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    Numbers? How about tournaments? We haven't had a world class defender in my lifetime and that's nearly 40 years.
     
  8. Dja

    Django Well-Known Member

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    Against Barcelona only 3 weeks ago or Spurs away just before that if you want to see him have a good game
     
  9. Dja

    Django Well-Known Member

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    We have. Rio, Sol & Terry were all world class
     
  10. Dja

    Django Well-Known Member

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    It's funny because on the whole City fans have been raving about him. Outside of the mix up with Kompany he's played well for them.

    It's England where he's had issues. Probably because he's playing 2 different styles of football for club & country.

    I also think there's a lot of scapegoating going off, like the Barca away game where people were trying to blame him for other players mistakes
     
  11. Voi

    Voice of Reason Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion he had an excellent second half last night and was undoubtedly one of England's best players, both in the air and on the ground. I am also fairly sure, though I do not have the stats to hand, that England have conceded very few goals indeed in games which he has started.
     
  12. Hom

    Homer Well-Known Member

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    Stones is a good player. The point I am making is he needs to move the ball on quicker. He seems hell bent of having a little turn with it or a tap forward and the opposition closes him down. Watch him more closely and see the number of times he does it. When at Barnsley when he was younger and the opposition weaker he used to love jinxing forward and made some fabulous runs. He is now up against international opposition and he has to be more prudent.
     
  13. Gordon Owen

    Gordon Owen Well-Known Member

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    Even Rio's manager said he wasn't world class and he was ten times better than the other two. World class must be over used these days.
     
  14. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    The last world class central defender we had was probably Bobby Moore. widening it out to full backs Ashley Cole for all his faults as a human being just about reached the heights.

    People use the term too lightly presumably when they mean a very good international player.
     
  15. Don

    DonnyTyke Well-Known Member

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    Dont talk nonsense. Regardless of how many tournaments we won, we had the best defence around for many, many years. Rio, Terry, Campbell were all world class, infact the first two will probably be remembered as two of the greatest ever.


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  16. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    My observation last night was when Stones had the ball rest of England players stood still playing mannequins ,
    When Busquetts had ball about four or five Spanish players were peeling off and making runs expecting a pass.
    I think In the short term Stones will be a better player for his club as Pep will bring the best out of him and coach him into being a similar player to Busquetts.
    Until we have a world class coach with a few more players with the experience and knowledge he'll struggle for his country .
     
  17. fir

    fired Administrator Staff Member Admin

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    Think you need to look further up the pitch. I'm not saying he doesn't make mistakes, but I watched him closely last night.
    He was THE player always making himself available to receive the ball from Hart. Ordinarily, that is usually a full back's role. It looks to me that Stones has been given this task because his distribution is better than anyone else's.

    Once he has the ball he has 3 options, pass to someone who makes themself available, carry it himself, or lump it. He doesn't want to lump it, because he would have released it if there was anyone available. That's when he gets caught out, because he's trying not to lump it forward. Anyone can do that. You can see him shouting at players to move, and show for the ball.

    For me the problem lies with our midfielders. They don't want the ball in tight situations. Dier and Henderson have yet to impress me. I can't for the life of me understand how they keep getting picked. And Sterling is a poor Man's Martin Bullock. Just runs into traffic.

    Very easy to pick on Stones if you don't look at the wider picture. He's obviously been told to carry the ball out. The other players are responsible as much as he is.
     
  18. too

    toontyke Active Member

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    Totally agree he had an excellent game - could he have done better for their first goal? - at first sight it looks like it but actually the finish was so good (inch perfect) that it's unfair to blame the defender whoever they are.
    It does seem like the pundits and the papers are looking at his every move with so much more scrutiny than the other players it's a shame. It's a bit like Rooneys predicament, although he's at the other end of his career obvs.
     
  19. BBB

    BBBFC Well-Known Member

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    Haha. No they won't. If the only perspective you have on football is those who can play for England, maybe. Otherwise, probably not.

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  20. Dja

    Django Well-Known Member

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    Fergie? I wouldn't read anything into that. He came out with loads of nonsense to sell a book.

    He was a bit of a bell end but Rio was top drawer, he proved himself time & time again against top class opposition in the champions league
     

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