AS most of you know I tend towards right leaning when it comes to politics HOWEVER...

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Tekkytyke, Jun 20, 2017.

  1. Donny Red

    Donny Red Well-Known Member

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    Just seen Philip Hammonds speech at the Mansion House. Said that the Government had thought it had
    got its spending plans right but the result of the recent Election has told them that they were wrong.!

    Their policy was "Bleak House" for another 5 years and whilst probably not achievable Labours was " here you go
    grab what you want it's all free" ( done purposefully in the knowledge they could probably not win by the way.)

    What it has done howeverhas now prompted Hammond to say that austerity is not the answer and that investment in business and local services is. In part effectively a "stealing " of Labours clothes .


    I wonder if the Open University will start a new course " The Philip Hammond Degree in stating the bleeding obvious"!
    People of all political persuasions have been telling the parties that since they came to power in 2010 re- Tory and
    Lib Dems.
     
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  2. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    To be fair to Barwell, he was only Housing Secretary for 11 months so he is not the only one to blame for not holding the review. IIRC he knew May from University and was only promoted once she had power so I really don't expect her to ever throw him under the bus unless she really has to.
     
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  3. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    Wasnt the Tory manifesto for more austerity?
     
  4. Ses

    Sestren Well-Known Member

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    My interpretation is that they (mis)calculated that people now see austerity as 'normal' - a new baseline, deviation from which can easily be dismissed using the 'magic money tree' argument. They thought the discussion was already won: that everybody was fully convinced that Labour overspent when they were in office (global crisis? What global crisis?), and that national finances are broadly comparable to a household budget.

    They've now had to reposition themselves after realising that people aren't quite as stupid as they thought they were.

    I think it's also important to say that, in my opinion, Labour's 2015 campaign did them a huge favour in this regard. If Corbyn had been toppled by the PLP, and one of the Labour right had fought the 2017 election on the same 'austerity light' platform, then the tories would probably have succeeded in establishing a perpetual austerity government (whether red or blue), and it could have taken a generation for that to change.
     
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  5. Mrs

    MrsHallsToffeerolls Well-Known Member

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    Their batting on a sticky wicket narr though DR.
     
  6. tobyornottoby

    tobyornottoby Well-Known Member

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    That's wonderful then. No more Public Enquiries. It will save the country a fortune!

    Nobody ever bothers with the conclusions of a Public Enquiry. Largely because it's years before the conclusions are arrived at.

    Sadly a Public Inquest will be exactly the same. Calling it "Inquest" rather than "Enquiry" will make no difference.

    Anyway, don't worry. Everyone will have their say.

    There will be no doubt many inconvenient truths.

    It won't stop those wishing to make their own political points.

    Though I'm not sure how palatable it is for you to continue to abuse over 40% of the voting public, with your peace loving edicts such as Tory voters are not to be trusted, or don't have a social conscience etc..

    If you were baring such random prejudices against those of a different religion, you would be strung up (metaphorically on here, literally in many places abroad). I doubt you ask everyone you meet if they're a Tory, just to determine whether they are untrustworthy or don't give a **** about anyone else.

    Why not just make your point?

    No need to sow the seeds for a civil war. Just debating we are - and everyone's entitled to their opinion.
     
  7. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    It'll be another Hillsborough. Bury the truth. Blame the victims. Hide the evidence. It's already started. They'd clearly like it to be another Orgreave but it's a bit too late for that.


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  8. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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  9. Donny Red

    Donny Red Well-Known Member

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    It's telling that whenever this buffoons name is mentioned on Have I Got News for You
    Ian Hislop starts pi*sing himself laughing.
    Seriously worried if he becomes Prime Minister. We'd become a laughing stock.!
    (that's if we're not already.)!!!
     
  10. tinatyke

    tinatyke Well-Known Member

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    Where have I abused ?
    It's not what I do.
    My experience of Conservatism has given me the right to state what I think/feel and that is "Never trust a Tory"
    If you see that as abuse then clearly you are very thin skinned.
    I see lots of abuse from this government over the seven years of austerity.
    Their wholesale war on the weak, the poor, the needy, the disabled and the vulnerable, now that's abuse !
    My saying "Never trust a Tory " is my informed opinion on what I've seen, read or witnessed and nothing more than that.

    Abusing people is not my style
     
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  11. tobyornottoby

    tobyornottoby Well-Known Member

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    You have the right and are welcome to state whatever you wish.
    And to interpret the term abuse as you see fit.
    Though I think perhaps it is another matter as to whether it is fair for you to fail to distinguish between the character of a Tory government, and the character of each person in the land who may vote Tory.
    And then go on to consider it an informed opinion to conclude that no Tory can be trusted. Or have a social conscience.
    It means that e.g. many a well meaning grey rinse lady in the shires who volunteers for charity work, continues with her direct debit to Cancer Research, chips in for Oxfam appeals, leaves a share of her estate to the local hospice, pops in to see the old dear next door to make sure they’re all right, helps keep the local church and village hall in business, is nevertheless still an untrustworthy selfish Tory. Simply because they placed a cross in a box that does not agree with your own view of how things should be run.
    That seems a bit unfair to me. Just my uninformed opinion.
     
  12. Donny Red

    Donny Red Well-Known Member

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    Like the "grey rinse ladies" in the Shires the majority in the Tory Government would probably claim to be Christians.
    May constantly goes on about introducing policies that benefit " all of the people".
    I am a Christian although I no longer go to Church.

    One of the commandments I remember from my formative years was " Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself".
    Politicians have to make difficult decisions especially when it comes to being able to fund their policies.
    The fair way to do that to my mind is to take a fair and balanced view.

    Lowering Capital gains tax and Corporation tax benefits the wealth makers and the wealthy.
    When I worked I didn't begrudge paying high rates of tax because I reasoned I was at least earning an excellent salary.

    To my mind bringing back fox hunting and introducing Grammar schools in deference to dropping free school
    meals for infants, limiting winter fuel payments, a triple lock on pensions and a tax on dementia were not "inclusive"
    or very "Christian " and certainly not being implemented to benefit our poorer citizens.

    It is to the credit of Jeremy Corbyn and the Labour Party the " Government for all" didn't get the majority needed
    in order that they could force through their spiteful agenda.

    Theresa May has been roundly booed again following a visit to Grenfell Tower this afternoon.
    Listen to the reception that Corbyn gets on the main stage when he goes to Glastonbury this week.
    That will show what a lot of our more affluent citizens think irrespective of the bad press he has been given.
     
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  13. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    Home counties old ladies win my prize for least caring and most bigoted. Doing charitable works to be seen to do charitable work. Hard to balance that with voting for parties that steaal the food from kids, Rob the dead and rip animals apart. Bit aye they leave some cash to the cat protection league to try to buy their way into heaven.
     
  14. tobyornottoby

    tobyornottoby Well-Known Member

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    Whilst I myself am not a Tory, I take issue with the semi-permanent demonisation on here of those who are.
    For example, simply quoting the removal of free school meals without remembering that it was dinners being replaced by breakfasts is a manipulation of the facts.
    Limiting winter fuel payments meant largely avoiding payments to those who were well enough off so as not to need it. A bit like child benefit.
    The triple lock on pensions means that pensioners are more than well looked after in relative terms, but it can be argued that they will continue to have their own standard of living increase at the expense of others. What was to be removed from them was not dramatic.
    This "dementia tax" - well at present if you've got more than 23k you pay to be looked after. May was proposing to up the limit to 100k - so you get to keep an extra 77k. Plus bringing in a cap on the actual amount you might have to pay.
    So its not all black and white.
    Plus I think you might find that the mass of people at Glastonbury are youthful, irrespective of ticket prices. I'd have cheered someone who was prepared to give me something for nothing.
    For what its worth, I am with you on much of the rest you say. There should be a middle ground in all of this which looks after the needy, respects the fact that we can't spend more than we earn today just to ruin our kids futures, taxes the rich and makes sure they have no way of avoiding their dues, and gives everyone the same educational opportunity throughout their lives.
     
  15. Donny Red

    Donny Red Well-Known Member

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    I personally don't demonise Tory's per se. I count former colleagues among their number
    and most of them are friends.
    The flaw in the Tory Manifesto was that it was not costed therefore we can only assume their intentions.

    Take the school meals issue. Present spend is £600 million. Proposed spend £60 million re- 7 to 13 pence per cover
    if of course parents are prepared to get up and take kids to school in all weathers for a 7 pence breakfast.!!
    Plus the proposal would throw countless dedicated School canteen staff on benefits.

    Typical annual fuel bill is over a grand per year. Winter fuel payments will pay for around 6 weeks of energy to cover
    the cost of having the heating on so in a way it's no big deal I suppose. With the Rough field closing and Britain becoming net importers of gas from Scandinavia where are bills likely to go in the future.?

    Pension lock. I know a lady who gave 25 years service as a Nurse to the NHS. She came out with a lump sum of
    £14 k and gets £389 per month in pension. That lady is my missus and was worried that the amount she might receive in future might not keep pace with the cost of living if a lock was applied. The age at which she can receive a State Pension has been set back also which won't help.

    As for the dementia tax we don't know what their final plans were. Didn't they say they were negotiable.?
    I called in at my former place of work and a girl I used to deal with at the Cabinet Office ( reported in to Frances Maude and
    Sir Eric Pickles) was there on business. We were talking about any possible new threshold.
    She said " don't build your hopes up it could be revised down to £20k". Admittedly she had a smile on her face when she said it but we'll never know. She was in the midst of hard core Labour voters so she could have been winding us up.

    The Tories who I count as friends have attended Glastonbury a few times since it firststarted in 1970

    I doubt that the majority will be Labour supporters but we'll see what kind of a reception JC gets.
    Telegraph article below seems to suggest the festival is for folks of all ages.
    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/goodlife...-Glastonbury-goer.-Now-tell-us-their-age.html
     
    Last edited: Jun 22, 2017
  16. Donny Red

    Donny Red Well-Known Member

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  17. Donny Red

    Donny Red Well-Known Member

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  18. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    Seems strange to me that the Conservatives are seen as the party of 'law and order' this isn't the first time they have decimated the police and the army.

    Treating the police with such contempt and disdain given the role they play is unforgivable if we had an impartial press they would have absolutely destroyed her over it.

    The way our veterans particularly those who have suffered from mental health issues over the last 7 years has also been pretty shameful. Homelessness and apathy have been the response. They are one of the unseen victims of austerity. Of a very rich country pretending to be poor.


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  19. Donny Red

    Donny Red Well-Known Member

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    It was probably right that Labour did not politicise this gaffe from when May was Home Secretary but had it been brought
    to the publics attention it would especially after the Manchester bombing have highlighted the Governments folly in
    their contempt of an " on the ground " former Community copper who warned them their cost cutting policies were wrong
    and could have a damaging effect.

    As a kid the village where I lived was virtually crime free as far as juvenile and young adolescents were concerned.
    That was down to one man. PC George Naylor. He stood an impressive 6' 4" ex- military ramrod straight.
    At night you could hear him approaching as the pedometer on his front wheel made a clicking noise.
    He had his cape draped over his handlebars. He was on first name terms in the village with every young person and he also knew their parents extremely well.

    God help you if he caught you committing a "crime " e.g ragging a local orchard or playing on a nearby building site or bomb
    shelter because he'd thump your lug and you knew for certain when your Dad came in from work the next day you'd get another 'cos PC George would have had stopped him and told him what you'd been up to.
    ( We never had cornfields where we lived so nobody got done for running through them!)

    He was like hoss sh*t he was all over the place. Chapel on Sunday, School sports day, Harvest Festival, Prize giving nights
    Youth Club, local football cricket matches and was regarded as a valued member of the community who looked out for everybody and made sure you respected people .In return that meant that you yourself would be respected.

    Our parents were mortified if their kids brought discredit on the family. With all the changes and problems in modern day society people now seem less concerned in that regard and it would appear that self control, honesty and in part respect of others looks to have seriously diminished which to my mind is really sad.
     
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  20. BFC Dave

    BFC Dave Well-Known Member

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    Aye it were all green fields 'rahnd 'ere when I were a lad :)

    Spot on though, although there are a hell of a lot of right minded folk of all ages. They don't make good headlines ;)
     
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