Because they're worth it ?

http://www.barnsleychronicle.com/article/council-officers-pay-revealed

About £28k extra on these 4. How much does a school crossing patrol cost ?

Overpaid administrators.

 

I guess you have to benchmark it against what they could earn in the private sector. Public sector employment should definitely have in pace restrictions that no one at the top of the organisation can earn more than a certain multiplier of those at the bottom.


Sent from my iPad using Barnsley FC BBS Fans Forum

 

It used to be that wages/salaries in the public sector were lower than in the private sector, as pension benefits were superior. Now the public sector is the one to work in with its high wages. A friend of mines son was earning £40k a year in IT, and saw the equivalent job working for a council at double that. The job is less stressful and he has time off during the week to play golf etc.

 

Going to have to defend this a bit. Each of those will have huge remits and significant amounts of accountability in a vast organisation. And would be paid far more in even the non profit sector before you start to think about the private sector.

Local authorities broadly operate a 10 times rule. Those at the top earn 10 times what the lowest paid employees earn. I think this is a very fair system and one that should be replicated across all sectors.

No one goes in to local government for the pay. I'm 35 and a head of service (not in Barnsley), which is one level below Assistant Director. I've turned down several direct approaches from the third and private sector to increase my pay substantially because I believe in and enjoy what I do.

The one thing that does put me off continuing in local government isn't the public scrutiny, this is right and proper, but the uninformed criticism and abuse that we receive online and in social media that largely doesn't exist in other sectors.

Just to add, I passionately believe in the power of local government to be drivers of positive change in people's lives, despite the decimation of austerity on our ability to do that. There's some dross in local government, like in any industry, but there's a huge amount of talent who are navigating regulatory and budget pressures, and the whims of national and local politicians, to try and improve our communities.

 

I just want to clarify one thing 'nobody goes into public sector for the pay'. That is totally untrue, I know a number of people who work in the public sector because it is well paid.

 

Tbf that is true at some levels. Certainly the lower paid jobs are better paid and better protected than private sector equivalents. Which I believe is a good thing A prime example would be care workers. The worst consequence of austerity is that functions such as this are being transferred to the private sector who deliver the service cheaper by simply employing people on worse pay and terms of conditions. It's a national scandal caused absolutely by the ideology of austerity.

But take housing as an example (where it is still managed in house). Council housing officers are paid less than housing association equivalents. New build project managers are paid significantly less. And where a similar sized housing association would have a director structure with equivalent pay the housing function would be just one part of a local government assistant director's remit. A director of development alone at a housing association would be paid £25k more than a local government assistant director.

And that's before you hit people like social workers who do a job where there is no equivalent private sector options to necessitate paying them properly.

 

But housing officers for the council would not necessarily get a job as an housing officer for a private company would they? Just because an housing association pays more for better people doesn't mean that the person working for the council isn't doing so because it's the best money they could get

 

I wondered where my increased council tax would go.

Not towards ' social care'

 

That's a fair point but i was using that example as in response to your point on pay, to show that their are lots of areas where other sectors pay more. Your post does illustrate that you need to pay broadly competitive to the market as you risk losing the best people.

As a better example, I used to be responsible for negotiating affordable housing through the planning system, trying to maximise the number of new affordable homes for the area. Planning consultants would frequently offer significantly more pay to go and work for them to try and negotiate their clients out of having to provide those homes.

 

That's because you are good at your job though isn't it?
I do see your point though that the better employees could get more in private sector. The worse employees however get paid well for work that they couldn't do for so much money in the private sector as they are not worth it so while the better employees may not go into it for the money a high number of poorer ones do.

 

Some truth in that, although I think that is more a reflection on the poor quality jobs and pay that have been created to replace our manufacturing base in northern communities, not that public sector jobs are overpaid

 

At least you're not generalising and suggesting that if you're **** at your job you will get well paid in the public sector as the private sector wouldn't touch you with a barge pole.

 

That isn't what I'm saying.

For a lot of job areas here is what I mean

Entry level - Private sector - minimum wage
Entry level - Public sector - above minimum wage.
Advanced level -public sector - reasonable wages
Advanced level - private sector - significant wages

The entry level positions are better paid in the public sector so people enter for the money (amongst other things) but the better or more advanced members are then able to earn more money in the better paid private sector jobs. Those staying are not there for the money

 

Well I left the private sector to work for National Govt in a similar type of role and took a pay cut. At that time the Pension scheme And holidays entitlements were similar to what I'd moved to. It was the Monday to Friday aspect of it that swayed it mainly because I 'm a family man. I wasn't working weekends in the Private sector job but it was on the Horizon and would soon be coming in. Fast forward a few more years to date and I will be getting a 0.25% pay rise for the next 4 years coz I wouldn't sign upto the new pay deal which meant signing up for weekend working and later nights as wel as other changes to my terms and conditions. Now the extra pay I would've received had I signed up to the New deal' still only amounted to around 1% over the next 4 years. When this 'pay deal' ends in another 3 years it I will have 18 years service and it is forecasted that I (and many colleagues) will be on National living wage.
I usually find that when people from the private sector and elsewhere talk up about how lucky public sector workers are, they haven't a clue. The workers at the lower end of the scale particularly in the DWP, which is by far the biggest Govt, Dept.and the poorest paid of all the civil Service, have suffered as much as, if not more than many other workers during this artificial (farcical) austerity nonsense.

 

I can only speak from experience. I left the private sector to join the public sector forty seven years ago
and willingly took a 50% reduction in pay because it suited my lifestyle at that time.

During my working life I had five jobs. The only reason I moved could be likened to the motives
of our players who moved on in January re- purely down to what I could earn and not because I
was necessarily dissatisfied with where I was previously. In fact as a result of one of my moves I
became demotivated and was as miserable as sin for a full 12 months.

What you get paid is relative. In the final years of my employment I had the responsibility for an
annual spend of circa £350 million where poor transactional judgement could end up costing my Clients
thousands and end up bringing the weight of their criticism bearing down upon me. In the Private sector one bad decision
you'd probably get the bums rush PDQ.!

In the Private sector I would imagine such levels of responsibility would probably command a salary in excess
of plus £200k whereas I was paid around one third of that.! Like our players I knew the pay and conditions when
I started the job and if I wanted more I would have to move on. Being empty nesters with no mortgage and my wife
also working there was no need for me to do that and so I was happy to continue doing what I was paid to do and was very
sad when it had to come an end. There used to be security in the public sector - not anymore. The swingeing cuts imposed
by Central Government means that jobs have had to go. We laugh at the Peter Kay joke about only having Play Station and a car each, but in years to come if you were to say to someone you did the same job for thirty years they will probably look at you in total disbelief.

I really do feel for the youth of today. It's getting harder for them to afford to be educated, get on the property ladder and find a job
that guarantees fixed hours and rates of pay. I shudder to think what might happen post Brexit.!

 

Indeed and I wouldn't wish to identify everyone in the public sector as a leech on resources - what I was flippantly doing was trying to make the point that in the (responsible ) private sector - when times are hard then sacrifices are often made at the top - whereas this (on face value) looks like those at the top seem immune to reality. They seem able to make 'difficult choices' with impunity.

And before Philip Green etc gets chucked at me, he's not representative of every business owner, as this article isn't representative of everyone in senior positions in the public.

 

Again I can't comment on Barnsley, but at my place the 30% funding cut (to date) from central government has been responded to in a whole number of ways but a notable action has been a reduction in the number of directors from 6 to 4, and a significant reduction in assistant directors. Some would argue this shows there were too many to start with, but personally I think this has led to people left with far too broad remits, particularly at AD level when people with already challenging areas such as child protection and are given additional and completely new service areas of which they have no experience or knowledge.

 

Private Sector pay at the top of the scale is completely out of control. Much better
/Worse. In a comparable role on the private sector you would expect to get double for the same sort of role.

 

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/b...are-rocketing-out-of-control-2284397.html?amp

 

In small business, maybe. In massive businesses, no ******* chance. The top brass where I work spend money like its going out of fashion and waste it hand over fist