Cons and DUP

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by shed131, Jun 13, 2017.

  1. shed131

    shed131 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2009
    Messages:
    5,596
    Likes Received:
    4,390
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    In Cudeth Nar
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Anybody reckon they are prepared to answer, ive this posted on numerous sites



    An open message to the Gay and bi-sexual Conservative MPs , their members and supporters of the said party.. First of all, may i offer my congratulations on the winning result in the general election, even though i did not vote Conservative.
    That said I have a question for the said politicians, members and supporters of the Conservative Party.
    How do you now live with yourselves, knowing your leader the Prime Minister has done a deal with a party that are well noted for their Homophobic stance opposes same-sex marriage, and formerly campaigned against the legalisation of homosexual acts in Northern Ireland, their horrendous record speaks for its self.
    Do you now act if everything is alright and its a case of turning a blind eye to their belief system, just because it helps you into power.
    Do you now expect everyone else who is not gay or bi-sexual to continue to champion your cause for equality tolerance and understanding and acceptability within all communities, when its now blatantly obvious that you yourselves have a lack of respect, not only for yourselves, but for the Gay community at large, by accepting the Democratic Unionist Parties offer of help.
    In my opinion you have let not only yourselves down but the Gay community at large.
    Tonight that wonderful rainbow symbol is being attacked and tainted ..do not let it become black and white.
    I truly feel for my Gay friends who face discrimination every day of their lives.
    To use a well know Conservative sound bite ...the enemy within ....is now residing within the corridors of power at number 10
     
  2. jedi one

    jedi one Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2005
    Messages:
    5,322
    Likes Received:
    2,243
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    WITH THE FORCE................
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    is that 'cos the church in general don't agree with homosexuality, abortion or gay marriage. stop trying to twist STUPID religious bigotry to suit your own political veiw
     
  3. Wat

    Watcher_Of_The_Skies Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2011
    Messages:
    8,684
    Likes Received:
    4,388
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Leeds
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
  4. shed131

    shed131 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2009
    Messages:
    5,596
    Likes Received:
    4,390
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    In Cudeth Nar
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Not trying to twist anything to suit any political agenda Trev...just asking a legitimate question
    How can the gay and lesbian Conservative MPS can agree with a party that goes against their beliefs. And yes I know why NI is a touchy subject with you and many more on on here,along with past friends. Yes I understand and don't forget. That said I know for a fact you wouldn't accept working with a known or past terrorist out of principle. And principle is a big part of the question. Don't you agree
    Without them it's a dog eat dog situation.
     
  5. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2005
    Messages:
    7,369
    Likes Received:
    4,609
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Retired
    Location:
    Italy
    Style:
    Barnsley Dark
    As far as I am aware, the Conservatives have not signed up for any of the bigoted policies which are part of the DUP manifestoon abortion or lesbian Gay rights or included them in the Queens speech. I therefore suggest we keep our poweder dry until such time as they actually climb into bed with the DUP by agreeing toi any of their extreme demands. If it is a marriage of convenience, it doesn't necessarily mean it has to be connsummated
    This was the reason I did not sign the change.org petition that did the rounds and which my daughter sent me. I am not anti gay lesbian and don't see anything wrong with same sex marriage. Homosexuality and Lesbianism is, to me , at any rate, not normal but is perfectly natuiral for some people. i.e. the norm is that the species procreates for which humans need male and female to ' engage' . However, relgious taboo equated it to bestiality and it is those who follow religion that condemn it as sinful. As regards abortion I am wholly against it when it is for 'convenience' given the availability of contraception, However, where pregnancy is as a result of rape, or mpther and/or child would be endangered if full term was allowed, or if the child would be severely intellectually handicapped and the parents felt that they could not cope then it should be legal. It comes down to at what point you consider a foetus to be a sentient living being. I am sure this is the view that many people have on this, and I am sure most politicians whatever mainstream political party they belog to would find the DUP stance on both issues repugnant and therefore would not be able to support them.
     
    MarioKempes likes this.
  6. Donny Red

    Donny Red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    8,216
    Likes Received:
    7,042
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired.
    Location:
    Ossett.
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    We live in a changing World. When I was a kid you could leave your doors open in the knowledge no one would enter and nick
    'owt ( mainly because nobody had 'owt worth nicking). If a woman had a child out of wedlock she was ostracised by the community and your main concern on any issue is "what will the neighbours say.”?

    Life centred around the Church, school and the family.

    On the subject of homosexuality the Bible said then and still says now " man shall not lay with man".
    It was illegal and if convicted you could be imprisoned ( main motivation for Brian Epsteins suicide in 67.)
    As has also been said certain religions also frown upon contraception, divorce, and abortion . It just so happens that Society has evolved over the last 60 years and has become more liberal in its morals and principles so as to ignore original teachings.


    The Conservatives are willing to sacrifice their beliefs to cling onto power at all costs and will do a deal with the DUP.
    One leading member was on the Jeremy Vine Show this morning and said " it's not in the parties interest to make drastic
    changes at the moment". His fellow guest who was Deputy Ed of the Mirror said what I was thinking " what about the Country and the 53% who didn't vote for a Tory Government."?

    May has done so many U turns it's a wonder she hasn't disappeared up her own orifice. She was a Remainer before June 2016. After the referendum she went with the flow and became Hard line Brexit. She's now saying she favours the Softer
    Brexit option. What does this woman really believe in.?

    She needs to consider Sir John Majors advice given today. Abandon any deal with the DUP and try and go it alone otherwise
    the peace process in Northern Ireland could be put at risk.

    There are many Tory MP's who's beliefs are at odds with the views of the DUP. It's a question of "when "not "if "the cracks start to appear IMO leading to a re-think of their overall strategy.

    They certainly know if they go to the Country again they are handing the keys to No 10 to Jeremy Corbyn a thought that the ruling classes of our Country won't want to countenance.
     
    Jimmy viz, BobT and shed131 like this.
  7. jedi one

    jedi one Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2005
    Messages:
    5,322
    Likes Received:
    2,243
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    WITH THE FORCE................
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    toget his majority wont labour have to woo the d.u.p. as 7 of corbyns mates wont take their seats ( and the oath) sinn fien/ira
     
  8. Donny Red

    Donny Red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    8,216
    Likes Received:
    7,042
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired.
    Location:
    Ossett.
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    He has openly said he doesn't support Sinn Fein. He says he entered into discussions with them to understand why as a pacifist they were using violence to attempt to achieve their aims and what if anything he could do to help in the ongoing process of brokering a long term peaceful solution along with others.

    There is no evidence that anyone can produce to disprove these claims.

    Although subsequently denied at the time John Major started talks with Sinn Fein and eventually in 2007 after protracted political discussions they finally delivered a joint solution to the " troubles" in the Province.

    Adams and McGuiness went on record as saying that they eventually realised that the tactics of the bullet and the bomb would have never ever brought about a solution as all it did was harden the resolve of the British Government and their allies.
    Talking one to the other was the only way.

    Regarding the recent election as we know to get an overall majority any party requires 326 seats. The Tories got 318 so with the 10 DUP seats they would get to 328 seats.

    Labour secured 261.If they joined a " rainbow" coalition with the SNP, Lib Dems, Greens etc I reckon they could muster 322 re- 4 short of a majority.


    I am not surprised at the flak that May is getting now from her own side. If they had won she would have hardly got her head in the photo shoot similar to the one Thatcher, Parkinson and others posed for at Tory HQ when they won their landslide in 1983.

    They all took credit citing collective responsibility. May has now been forced into saying " I've got us into this mess and so I will get us out of it" giving the impression that none of the others have had any input whatsoever because as they normally do when a disaster befalls their party they put forward a "patsy" so that when everybody chips out they are not left holding double six.
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2017
  9. hav

    havana red1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,594
    Likes Received:
    1,462
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Corbyn has been 'sleeping' with his pals in sinn fein for almost 40 years, long long before any 'peace' negotiations' were on the agenda. He did this because he is a rabid republican first and foremost so they are his ideal bedfellows. I find it difficult to comprehend how an individual can have the issue of a republic as a primary driving focus: it's completely irrational when the people of great britain have a thousand real issues to deal with.
     
    MarioKempes likes this.
  10. Ext

    Extremely Northern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Messages:
    11,753
    Likes Received:
    1,949
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    Professional Northerner.
    Location:
    Preparing for the 4th division
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Politicians will hang their hat on, turn a blind eye and endorse by silence the non- Western illiberal views of quite a few groups if there's votes in it.


    Sent from the darkest recesses of a poisoned mind.
     
  11. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
    Messages:
    8,241
    Likes Received:
    6,650
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    The interface between business and technology
    Location:
    Brampton by the Sea
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Sinn Fein have apparently took up their offices in Parliament today. Perhaps they might just join the fun - they are already voicing concern about the demands of the DUP
     
  12. Donny Red

    Donny Red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    8,216
    Likes Received:
    7,042
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired.
    Location:
    Ossett.
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)

    He makes no secret of the fact and he's entitled to his beliefs. Tony Benn held the same views as do many others in the public eye. At least he has the courage of his own convictions and is consistent. He has stated that as leader of the Labour Party Republicanism is not a battle he wants to win.

    He surely knows that like others he won't live to see such a concept evolve as the majority of UK citizens are Royalists.
    History tells us that the activities of the " Black and Tans" who were drafted in by the Government in 1918 did nothing to endear the British acting on behalf of " the Crown" to the indigenous Irish people.

    I used to go to the same Church as an Irish guy in Doncaster. He always wore a black Mac, a black beret and black leather gloves. If we watched an England match in the pub if they played the National anthem he usually went for a pee.

    When he died we got talking to his daughter at his funeral .She confided that her Dad had seen the " Black and Tans" drag his Mother and Sister out of bed and rape them whilst he was made to look on. He had also alleged that some IRA sympathisers
    in his village had been covered in tar and had feathers stuck to them.

    He never admitted it but her Mum and the daughters siblings suspected that what he'd witnessed had motivated him to
    join the IRA. When the family went back on holiday to Ireland he would Park up and look down on where he was born from a high vantage point but would never actually venture into the village which made them think he was " wanted" for something he'd done before he fled to England.





    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republicanism_in_the_United_Kingdom
     
  13. hav

    havana red1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,594
    Likes Received:
    1,462
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    A wonderful piece of propaganda. There is plenty of documentary evidence about the role the black and tans played in ireland and it is generally accepted that their actions were often intimidatory. Dragging women out of houses and raping them though, come on. I thought that's what the germans did to nuns in belgium during ww1?: nope, this was propaganda too. I wouldn't dream of using wikipaedia either as it is not a reliable source of information. It's information is contributed by members of the public
     
  14. Donny Red

    Donny Red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    8,216
    Likes Received:
    7,042
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired.
    Location:
    Ossett.
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I don't think it's propaganda HR1 it does appears to be an unfortunate fact . Like " Mad Mitch" and his shoot to kill orders in Aden before him the words of Lt Col Smyth of the British Army as uttered in 1920 would appear to add credibility to the accusations of many Irish Republicans involved at the time. Some of the acts perpetrated by the Black and Tans would probably be viewed as war crimes today.

    We have no way of knowing what precisely those " crimes" extended to but there must have been some motivating factors to make young Catholic men to take up arms to resist the British forces who had put the Tans and Protestant supporters into Ireland on a " divide and rule" basis. Why would Fitzy the guy I knew need to lie to his wife and daughters.?

    How did he get the burn marks on the left side of his face.? He never said. His daughter said she was told it was an infection caused by nicking himself whilst shaving although people,in the village of Edenthorpe said he had it when he suddenly showed up after leaving Ireland. We'll never know the answer to that one.

    The exodus from Ireland started in the 1840's as a result of the potato famine and a lot of folks including my own relatives fled Ireland and headed for England to get away from from the troubles from the 20's onwards.

    I don't agree with the IRA's policy of armed conflict and Jeremy Corbyns apparent wish to establish a Republic.
    What I do agree with is everyone's right to free speech and to express views that they hold firm and truly believe in.

    Nowhere in their manifesto have Labour expounded any views for either the support of Sinn Fein or a wish to establish a
    UK Republic because quite rightly it would meet with fierce opposition from all sides of the political spectrum and that's good enough for me to support the Labour parties political policies which was written and had input from the broad church of Labour politicians some of whom like me do not necessarily concur with their leaders own personal views.



    http://www.historylearningsite.co.uk/ireland-1845-to-1922/the-black-and-tans/
     
  15. shed131

    shed131 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2009
    Messages:
    5,596
    Likes Received:
    4,390
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    In Cudeth Nar
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Trev how do you work out they are corbyns mates he was as explained in post above.the tory rags pushed this agenda to discredit him yet if you check social media its a wash with with photos of tory MPs shaking hands with the very same people who JC gets slaughted for....today i read that 7 of his so called mates are going to take their seats not because they want anything to do with the queens oath but they openly say that they admire JC principles of not taking sides but remaining Neutral in the fragile peace in NI and they are also against the DUPs involvement with Mays mob.
    like its been stated above....the funs about to start and the **** is about to hit the fan.....May with her stance as put her party before the country and Ireland ...shes risked every thing with one last throw of the dice to stay in power....the next few days and the queens speech to come could see her ousted.
    interesting times ahead......
     
  16. Donny Red

    Donny Red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    8,216
    Likes Received:
    7,042
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired.
    Location:
    Ossett.
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)

    I thought your post was a "wind up" Scoff but it's not. They have broken a 100 year tradition and have travelled from Ireland and have been inducted and registered for office space at Westminster.

    That move would take the Tory majority in a southerly direction and potentially to the point of collapse.

    You can bet your bottom dollar that Labour, SNP, Sinn Fein are now planning something and could be ready to propose
    an alternative Queens Speech. Be very interested to hear JC's Shadow Cabinet line-up.
    Interesting times.?
     
  17. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2011
    Messages:
    8,241
    Likes Received:
    6,650
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    The interface between business and technology
    Location:
    Brampton by the Sea
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Just like the Chinese curse "May you live in interesting times".

    To be honest, with the DUP in bed with the Tories, Sinn Fein have nothing to lose and everything to gain by turning up. And the Tory/DUP deal has been delayed until next week due to the fire in London.
     
  18. Donny Red

    Donny Red Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2016
    Messages:
    8,216
    Likes Received:
    7,042
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    Retired.
    Location:
    Ossett.
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Speculation is that the DUP want a pledge of £1 billion of additional funds to develop infrastructure improvements in Northern Ireland to guarantee their support of a Tory government.

    If a deal is agreed in principle in all likelihood it will have to ratified at Stormant which could prove to be a stumbling block.
    For their support once in power ( were that to happen) Sinn Fein would ask any UK Labour Government for a referendum on a United Ireland which of course would meet with resistance from the DUP and other fringe groups opposed to such a concept.


    As for Jeremy Corbyn and Sinn Fein JC didn't form a relationship off his "own bat." He was sent as the envoy of Mo Mowlem (the then Secretary of State for Northern Ireland) in an attempt to engage in meaningful discussions and acted mainly as an impartial mediator on the road to a peace deal being eventually brokered.

    Corbyn's personal beliefs mirror those of Mowlem viz: pacifists, opposition to
    intervention/ action in the Middle East etc.etc.

    Mc Guinness and Adams both went on record as saying that whilst the major politicians of the day closed out the peace deal
    by signing the Good Friday Agreement the involvement of Mo and Jeremy should be recognised as a major contributory factor in its eventual success.
     
    shed131 and BobT like this.

Share This Page