David Duckienfield.

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by upthecolliers, Jun 29, 2018.

  1. Sup

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    I don't think fencing was the only solution or the correct solution but it was a solution to a very real problem caused by hooligans.
     
  2. Sup

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    No. With hindsight it was an extremely poor choice but it was a choice driven by the hooligans
     
  3. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    Nah . Just prejudiced so will believe anything that’s thrown at him as long as it meets his criteria
     
  4. Sup

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    I think I misread this post as meaning HE had worked previous games

    "over the years i have spoken to people who were there at the time, and had worked previous matches at Hillsborough involving liverpool."

    Interestingly (or not) I do know somebody who thinks that exact way for those reasons though after being lied to
     
  5. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    But still a bad choice and one that should never have been allowed .
    I Visioned something like this years before . It was campaigned against from the outset although stifled by media cries when hooligans went on rampage .
    These solutions used after banning orders etc were called for way before fencing was allowed .
    It was political will and media frenzy that got the fences put up .
    I wasn’t an hooligan but I was s football fan my safety should never have been compromised .
     
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  6. Sup

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    I agree it shouldn't have. The hooligans should simply have been banned and if needed imprisoned as their behaviour was absolutely disgusting. All I'm saying is that in the chicken and egg scenario the hooligans came first and the fences came after but quite a few people (not you) refuse to even entertain the notion that the hooligans had any part to play in the disaster when it was their behaviour which led to those fences. The reason they won't acknowledge it? Because they were hooligans themselves and their conscience won't allow them to link the two and put blood on their own hands
     
  7. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    But it was the wrong solution.
    Not by hindsight , it was a big concern at the time loads of politicians etc spoke against it stating the consequences that occurred on that fateful day .
    It cannot be defended people at the time we’re against and warned against it . If the authorities put things in place they should be held responsible
     
  8. Sup

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    I agree they should. Regardless of people's reasons for doing things those in power should do the relevant research before making decisions
     
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  9. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    I have to disagree on the hooligans being responsible for the fences being put up .
    The people who called for and put up the fences are responsible for them .
    I agree the hooligans should have been jailed ,heavily fined banning orders etc etc but to say they are responsible Isn’t so that’s like me booby trapping my house against burglars then blaming them if one of my family fall foul of it .
     
  10. churtonred

    churtonred Well-Known Member

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    I'd agree. Fencing was a flawed solution as was tragically proved.
    However, right or wrong, it was the response to the problem created by hooliganism.
    If there were no hooligan problem as the instigator there probably wouldn't have been the fences that were the problem at Hillsborough.
    And I know they weren't the whole problem.
     
  11. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    It was the wrong solution read my replies to supertyke . There were many solutions to the hooligan problem and fencing wasn’t one of them . They prevented escape from danger . Could you see anyone who had blocked the stairways at Grenfell because muggers were using it getting away with it nowadays . No way it wasn’t a solution it was containment hooliganism was still going on endangering ordinary fans
     
  12. churtonred

    churtonred Well-Known Member

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    I'm not saying you're wrong Marlon. It clearly was the wrong solution.
     
  13. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    It certainly was before and after.
    And as I said it wasn’t a solution it was containment hooliganism was still going on but out of view of the tv cameras it solved absolutely zilch and the ones who advocated it should be on trial imo
     
  14. churtonred

    churtonred Well-Known Member

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    Along with the hooligans who caused the initial problem.
     
  15. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    Criminals have been around for years it was nothing new
     
  16. churtonred

    churtonred Well-Known Member

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    Heysel was something new.
    If nothing had been done after Heysel and it had been repeated there would have been huge outcry. Rightly.
    Fencing was a poor solution.
    I get that you have a problem with policing at the time of Hillsborough plus the Tory response to football crowd control. So do I. It was a disgrace. But you seem to want to pile the whole of the blame for the problem solely onto them and ignore the fact that if there hadn't been a hooligan problem in the first place there'd have been no need for the flawed response.
    Cricket has never had a Heysel or a Hillsborough.
    Neither has Rugby Union, or League or any other sport.
     
  17. shenk1

    shenk1 Well-Known Member

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    If they had delayed the kick off time by 15/30 minutes it would never have happened....fans not rushing to get in and give the authorities time to think.

    The cover up was as disgraceful as the actions taken.DD should name and shame before being hung out to dry.( Won't happen though !)
     
  18. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    But it was the response ! What part of wrong deterent don’t you get ? If the police had drawn a line and said if they cross it shoot them . Would that then still be the fault of hooligans that innocents were shot cos they were pushed over the line ? The authorities have a duty to keep us safe if they can’t they should cancel the event .but as always money talks . It was the deterrent that caused the problems if the fences weren’t there , yes the hooligans would have done same and probably match suspended surely you can agree that would have been better than what actually happened ?
    Other alternatives were there and have proved to work without fencing
     
  19. churtonred

    churtonred Well-Known Member

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    I think we must be talking at cross purposes Marlon. Again, I don't deny that fences were a bad idea. My point is that part of the responsibility for Hillsborough must lie with the hooligans whose actions brought about the need for any response in the first place.
    Anyway, let's leave it at that. :)
     
  20. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    I’m not at cross purposes I don’t deny the hooliganism at football I was there at other games but to say it’s misadventure as we were only trying to stop this hooliganism by putting every faker and their fatha at risk of being crushed is nonsense . The cheap Ill thought out response was the factor . When as I say once again other safer and as now proven deterents were put forward and dismissed
     

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