Does "hard brexit" still fly?

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by orsenkaht, Jun 18, 2017.

  1. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    I thought the election had something to say about that, but May and her cabinet seem to be acting like nothing has changed?
     
  2. upt

    upthecolliers Well-Known Member

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    May dare not do anything different to what she as been spouting or the UKIP contingent of the Conservative Party will be calling for her head, stalking horse comes to mind.
    And Nigel would not be pleased and she dare not upset him.
     
  3. Jam

    Jamo Well-Known Member

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    I think anyone who used that term seriously was a complete side salad anyway so I wouldn't worry about it
     
  4. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    It does seem strange their whole attitude to it and Hammond is clearly 'not on message'...if it wasn't so serious it would be thoroughly enjoyable.
     
  5. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Well-Known Member

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    Nothing has changed IMO. Why should it? The election campaign by May was disastrous but she didn't lose votes because of Brexit. Both major parties, who got a significant majority of the vote are committed to it.
     
  6. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Well-Known Member

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    The Labour party are also sending mixed messages which is unfortunate because I think that the negotiations over the next two years should be cross party.
     
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  7. Donny Red

    Donny Red Well-Known Member

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    Hard Brexit has to fly. Soft Brexit is not Brexit. It's not what those who elected to leave voted for.
     
  8. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    Can't say I disagree. Keir Starmer is the only Labour voice that matters on Brexit.

    Cross Party would be the best solution at the same time I'm not sure why ( politically) Labour would have anything to do with what is undoubtedly going to be a **** show. The Conservatives definitely need to can the 'no deal is better than a bad deal ********'.


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  9. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Well-Known Member

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    The no deal is better than a bad deal is just posturing IMO. There will be a deal but to get the best deal we need cross party unity, not just in Brussels but in the commons too. Just my opinion though.
     
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  10. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    I agree. Can't see how the SNP or Plaid or the LibDems or the Greens can be involved. As for Labour it depends if they are willing to sacrifice political opportunity for national good and if there is sufficient common ground for them to do so. I know it's just posturing but if they are to seek cross party consensus it has to go straight away.


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  11. DSLRed

    DSLRed Well-Known Member

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    The no deal is better than a bad deal thing is taken by most people to mean that they think the tories want no deal. Its ********. Everyone wants a good deal. But if we go in with the clear suggestion that we will take whatever ***** they offer us, as David Cameron did, then they will offer us *****, as they did with David Cameron. Which is what I very much fear we will now get. I wish people would realise its just a negotiating tactic and stop shitting their pants.
     
  12. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    If I were negotiating and my team were relatively united and in a relative position of strength against a weak divide opposition if they came to me with that attitude I'd absolutely go for them. Go in blustering we will get a bad deal. Go in positive and talking up opportunities we may get a less disastrous one.

    I think there are large sections of the Conservative Party that want no deal that want the hardest possible Brexit so in that context I don't think it's posterising or rhetoric. How much this extreme hard right rump can or will influence things Is difficult to say. May went to the country to support this position and we pretty much told her to sod off. So it's ground zero. We seem to have no desired outcome and no visible method of getting to this as of yet undisclosed outcome.


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  13. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    It is a **** negotiating tactic, which carries absolutely no weight now. If they try it now, Barnier will just laugh in their faces - everybody in the EU knows that they would face a vote of no-confidence within the day. Remember that our government have still not told the EU what our negotiating position is, and the talks start tomorrow!

    The best option IMHO is to set out what we want, compare it to what they want. Accept the commonalities and work on the rest.

    It's like the old Groucho Marx line. He walked up to a woman in a bar, and said (paraphrasing) "Excuse me, would you marry me if I was a millionaire?". She said "Yes." He then said, "Would you marry me if I was penniless?". Her reply "No, what kind of woman do you think I am?". His reply "I know what kind of woman you are, I'm just negotiating over the cost!".
     
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  14. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    Those who view Brexit as the solution to their lives want it irrespective of the consequences. To them, it is almost religious levels of faith that it will all work out. Given our current government's failure to achieve almost anything positive for the country, I strongly suspect that those who most want Brexit will be the most disappointed by the results.
     
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  15. MarioKempes

    MarioKempes Well-Known Member

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    The minor parties won't be involved, for obvious reasons. However they're not going to be needed because despite everything I think the last election failed to change a single thing regarding Brexit. Both Labour and Conservative are committed to leaving so there is some common ground.

    The problem, as I see it, is that the Tory party cabinet are split, May is unlikely to be PM beyond the party conference so there will then be another leadership campaign. The Labour party shadow appears equally split; McDonnell wants a 'hard Brexit', Corbyn wants to leave but I'm not sure he's committed to leaving the single market (even though I think it's in their manifesto) and Keir Starmer seems to favour staying in the customs union.

    I think the term is misleading but I still think a hard Brexit is the end goal, it's the outcome we should be striving for (IMO) but we have to get the negotiations right to ensure our exit gives us the best opportunity to succeed. Party politics have to be put aside for these negotiations for the good of the country.

    If only it was going to be so simple in reality.
     
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  16. Old

    Old Gimmer Well-Known Member

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    I'm just pleased that the party that caused us to embark on this historic act of national self-harm is lumbered with sorting it out. Serves them right. Be funny if not so serious.
     
  17. Young Nudger

    Young Nudger Well-Known Member

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    Hard Brexit is dead.
    And any deal that the Conservatives make about Brexit is dead.
    Simply because they are unprepared to negotiate with other political parties before going into negotiations - so ANYTHING that they come back with will be disputed by all the other parties.

    Conservative theory is dead and buried unless it can be reinvented.
     

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