general election on june 8th

That s the right wing of the tory party. The centre of the tory party represent middle class and self employed

 

Yep, I'll agree with you on that. I was just trying to point out that the problem doesn't stem from there being not enough space/the country being full. If there are problems in this vein, it's due to overcrowding only in certain areas and something that could easily be solved with a bit of infrastructure investment.

However, that'd involve public spending/borrowing for long-term payoff
(bit like Jeremy's been suggesting with his bank), and we know how that'd go down in the papers...

 

This is bang on I'm a average joe if you like I'm not in the poorest % not in the richest. I can't really relate to either party ****** no matter who gets In.

 

Quite liking Labour's start - some positive innovative policies on housing, transport etc. Plus and some redistribution of wealth that is much needed, tackling those tax avoiders and evaders. At least they're now going to get a reasonable hearing from the media. I suspect the damage has been done following a poor start from Corbyn and a media who just bashed him quite needlessly at times.

 

I'll tell you what the Tories do well in comparison to Labour. They get their message across well and argue the point far better than Labour.

You have only to watch PMQ's in the commons to realise this. Labour basically spend the entire parliamentary session, sniping at the Tory policies rather than promoting their own and saying to the British public, we would do this, it will cost you this but this will be the outcome. Real scenarios. Pretty much the worst of the bunch was Ed Milliband and his henchman Ed Balls, they were just terrible.

Like her or not, May Speaks with an air of authority whereas Corbyn has no impact in delivery of views. You watch when the campaign posters start appearing, the Tory ones will be pushing their policies, Labour will put up billboards criticising the Tories rather than promoting their own policies.

All this talk of brexit lies from the leave camp...There were also massive llies from remain, this topic needs to go away, so many people on here still fixated by a bus saying we sed 350 mill to the EU lets fund the NHS. From this people automatically think they promised to spend 350 million on the NHS. Personally I took it as we spend 350 mill on the EU lets spend it on Britain.. So yeah send some of that 350 mill to the NHS, other chunks elsewhere.. Nowhere did it say spend 350 completely on the NHS.. In fact the only complete lies came from the remain camp who kept saying that we would control immigration from being part of the EU and reforming it. Freedom of movement is one of the fundamental 4 freedoms of no compromise, hence that statement from remain is a complete lie. Another lie, Osbournes over the cliff budget that would have to be implemented if we voted to leave. Errr no, just project fear. So this issue of they said this and the other side said that is now irrelevant. This election is about the shape of our future outside the EU.

I had a lengthy debate yesterday with a friend of mine with extremely strong left wing socialist views. He is about the biggest Corbyn supporter you are likely to find. My point about Corbyns policies were that some in principle are great such as abolition of tuition fees, fully funded nhs, £10 min living wage, more council houses built, re-nationalisation of utilities and services, re-nationalisation of railways. I said fine, like some of the ideas how will it be affordable and is it not wrong to promise he will do this when realistically it might take 10 to 15 years to achieve such change. His response mirrors this extreme left wing stance of calling me deluded and a Tory in disguise. So absolutely zero attempt to justify the policies, just attacking me for questioning how it could work. Even after I had said I like some of the ideas.

I'll admit that I am a firm believer in our nation having complete control over our borders and not in favour of complete freedom of movement. What I also believe in though is that we need an immigration policy that works for Britain both economically and socially. If we need doctors, scientists, coffee shop workers then so be-it, lets allow people to apply for these types of jobs before they are given the right to stay in the UK. I would expect the same for instance if I wanted to leave the country and go live in Spain for example. If I wanted to retire to another country, I would expect to prove that I could be financially self sufficient for a number of years. Nobody should get something for nothing, just fair human values should be the means of assessment.

If anything I'm more in the centre of politics most of the time. Don't like to see anybody getting spoon fed by the government whether that be the rich through tax loopholes or the minority of people who are fit for work but make a conscious decision to live on state benefits. Those type of people truly ruin it for the majority of genuine people in society and everyone ends up being stigmatised as either a benefit scrounger or the opposite arrogant wealthy monster. Most people in society are decent hard working people with contrasting views, all with the right to express those views in a peaceful grown up manner. I'll always talk politics with anyone willing to have a grown up discussion. Unfortunately we have a growing trend in this country of only one way of life or policy being correct, shout the other people down, call them fruitcakes, loonies, racists.. Just so wrong, we achieve far much more when we work together and make compromises to ensure that we look after the majority of people and not a select few.

I said the same to my socialist friend. Again he just said I sound like a Tory MP so I ended the conversation before it soured out relationship. What is wrong about trying to have a reasoned discussion, offeirng fair criticism and accepting the same?

Some candidate needs to relate to me, the average Joe as I said before.. Otherwise I'm not sure who I can vote for.

 

Where are you getting these extra spaces from?

There isnt any.

At some point you have to say stop.

Liken freedom of movement to filling a bath.

At some point unless you turn the tap off itll flow over the top.

Doesnt make a difference if they speak Polish or Peshwan when theres limited FTE work, schools,housing etc you need to start slecting the skillset you need to grow an economy and maintain this.

As for net contributours... its been argued recently that this is incorrect and that they do not contribute positively other than via tax.
Which soon gets swallowed up if they claim any benefits, use the NHS etc.

Remember its between 3 and 5k just to cover the costs of labour just as an example.

It can also be argued that the lass from Poland knocking out lattes could in theory be taking a job off a local party or a student. Was it Pret on the tv recently?

 

Ok. So we stop immigration completely. That leaves us in a position where we are facing a massive increase in the pension bill and the associated healthcare bill due to the 7 million people that will retire in the next 10 years. Even with natural wastage (say 2-3million), you are looking at something like 4-5 million extra pensioners @ £100+ per week in 10 years time. That comes in at £20+billion per year in 10 years time more than now. Over the 10 years, it'll be nearer £40-50 billion extra (on top of the £108 billion a year we already pay in pensions). We have 3 options:

1). Bring in immigrants who pay taxes (roughly 200,000 per year earning average wage and paying *all* their tax towards the pensions deficit will just about cover it)
2). Reduce the pension/increase the pension age (and we are already looking at retiring at 70)
3). Logans Run, but at 70 rather than 21.

With less young people entering the job market than are retiring we are all looking at a massive tax increase without immigration. What is more palatable to you? - more immigrants or 30-40% tax on all your earnings?

 

I don't think anyone is saying stop immigration all together but instead of letting everyone and his dog in putting a strain on schools housing and the nhs ect. Put a scheme in place where if we are short of doctors, builders or whatever let them come here.

 

They've already said they are going g to spend spend spend a return to Victoria Nicholson school. Of economics

 

http://ilikecorbynbut.com/

 

In 42 years of Conservative governments since the war, only 4 years have seen a reduction in the national debt (~1/10). Labour have done 7 in 28 years (1/4). Our national debt has doubled through 7 years of austerity. If those policies haven't worked, should we try something else or keep on doing the same?

 

A bit of a hole in that argument unless you are going to tell these immigrants that after paying taxes here that they are not entitled to also claim pension benefits, an increase in population will increase the pension deficit. Plus if these migrants are low paid and fall under the tax thresholds, that will place and added burden on the public purse. I'm afraid the answer isn't bring more people into the country, we will have to start paying a bit more National Insurance Contributions, look at the whole process in detail and work out a future proof plan. So much cas is wasted by governments it's untrue, they seriously need to sort their act out.

 

Who's Victoria Nicholson? Viv's sister??

Sent from my MotoG3 using Tapatalk

 

At last some explanation of the 'Corbyn' vision. I'm still totally unconvinced though tbh. To achieve all this, we are talking 10-15 years of hardship for the everyday person earning just enough to get by. It doesn't mention how he would achieve the growth in the sectors mentioned. I guess I'll have to wait for the election manifesto to delve into this further. At the moment, I'm still convinced that my standard of living would be worse off under a Labour government.. Plus the local Labour MP's don't even buy into his policies which makes the decision to vote for a party like that even more difficult..

 

Whereas since 2010 the national debt has increased from £1tr to £1.8tr and this is after 7 years of austerity. How much of this money has been used for quantitative easing which does not hit the real economy. Would the money not be better spent in a controlled investment in infrastructure ?

 

It may indeed but we may aswell get started on that 10-15 years now if it is going to take that long. I'm happy to earn just enough to get by if it's for the greater good of all. I certainly don't believe we would achieve more inclusive education, healthcare etc. under the Tories vision. To me, if the every day person is going to be worse off one way or another I'd rather it be to achieve Corbyn's ideals than to make the rich even richer.

 

It has been banded about in the Labour camp that a national insurance increase will happen (I'm not surprised by that, but why the uproar when the Tories suggested this in the budget)? On top of that increase in the basic rate tax payer from 20p to 25p... So by those standards, the average UK salary is just above 21K.. This would mean just over 1K less in the paypacket purely on the 5p tax increase for someone who earns that 21k.. Add something else on for the national insurance and you then really begin to hit that persons standard of life taking into account rising council tax bills, inflation etc..
How will small business cope with the £10 minimum living wage? Probably cope through employing less people or laying off some of their current workforce.

 

I think most people's standard of living is pretty good and can afford to take a bit of a hit. People have so many luxuries these days that I don't think it's too much of a hardship if someone is going to find it harder to fund their smartphone, ipad, smart fridge etc. to make it easier for the poorest people to live, eat, have education and healthcare. I look around and I'm astounded by the things people own and yet still think they are hard done by. It's not that long ago (ok, a couple of hundred of years but still) when families all lived together in one house and more commonly one room, now everyone expects to have their own house full of gadgets, nice things to eat etc. as standard. True, I rent my own (tiny) house with my husband, we both have cars, we have a few gadgets and nice food so I can't exactly talk but I can appreciate that people take things for granted now that really aren't that necessary in life. I live incredibly simply and still have far more things than I honestly need whilst some people have nothing.

 

UK Average salary was £27,600 in September 2016.

 

Don't get me wrong, I'm not averse to paying my way to improve the country. I've always worked for a living, started my first job in 1992 earning 78 pence an hour doing the same job as people earning £8 an hour.. But thats the mindset that gets you through life. Work your way up from the bottom of the ladder, don't expect things for nothing. Never claimed benefits in my life. In fact the only time I tried to get some help was when I had a young daughter and my partner was forced out of work because of being struck down by the big C. I was told no financial help because I didn't live in a council house and I earned too much. Now the reality was I had just started on the property ladder 95% mortgage just covering things on the outgoings. So when you effectively divided my salary in 2 (not taking into account the daughter), we were well below what the equivalent national minimum wage would have been (so in poverty).. Had to build up debt after debt to survive. All I'm saying is that I think there are more people who would find themselves in trouble with even the small increases to basic rate tax and NI.