James McClean Not Wearing A Poppy Again

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by dreamboy3000, Oct 30, 2018.

  1. red

    redrum Well-Known Member

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    I don't think James McLean would have a problem with wearing the poppy if it was solely for ww1 and ww2 service men. He is from Derry Ireland so the poppy stands for the part the British army played in Ireland. Something he still doesn't agree with so he won't wear one.
     
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  2. Tarntyke

    Tarntyke Well-Known Member

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    Not disagreeing much with you, but since WW2, haven’t all conflicts been so avoidable, the Falklands included. Yes I know, Argentinians occupied them, but there was no real attempt at dialogue and was shamefully seen by the then British Govt. as an opportunity to boost popularity at home. Not going into too much much detail but viewing accounts by former Generals etc, our military and civilian personnel who went were badly let down by our Govt. We were so lucky more lives weren’t lost and even more lucky that the conflict wasn’t ‘lost.’Yet, because we ‘won’ this conflict it doesn’t get the same condemnation as the Gulf war, it should do. I wear a poppy, and did before it became ‘popular’ My dad’s dad, a miner, came out of a reserved occupation to fight and die for his country in WW2. My dad and his brother served in the Army. My dad, me and my 2 brothers, along with Thousands of other Miners were called the ‘Enemy within’ by Margaret Thatcher simply because she could as the Falklands ‘Victory’ was largely responsible for the majority she enjoyed in Parliament. Wearing a poppy or not, shouldn’t be divisive, but none of us should be so surprised if is.
     
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  3. portsmouth tyke

    portsmouth tyke Well-Known Member

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    I don't IMHO think the Falklands war was unavoidable, the Argies invaded, even to this day they still believe it belongs to them,and no dialogue would have settled in, they would have wanted something in return. The first gulf war I also believe was just as sadam decided he wanted Kuwait. However Iraq second time round and Afghanistan was avoidable, Northern Ireland is British so again that was unavoidable.
     
  4. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    If the British government hadn't reduced the forces in the South Atlantic in the year or so before the conflict then the Falklands war might not have happened. It suggested that we were no longer interested in that part of the world and allowed them the window of opportunity for the invasion. So, it could have been preventable.
     
  5. portsmouth tyke

    portsmouth tyke Well-Known Member

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    It may well have been preventable, but hindsight is a wonderful thing but at the time it wasnt unavoidable
     
  6. Tarntyke

    Tarntyke Well-Known Member

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    Don’t think Thatcher and her Govt. we’re pushing for any meaningful dialogue either directly or through mediators, such as the UN. I believe she and her Govt, saw this as a window of opportunity. Yes, the Argies were the aggressors and very much in the wrong, but I still think more could’ve and should’ve been done to try and avoid this conflict. The instantaneous Jingoistic fervour that is whipped-up in this country by large parts of the press and media is disturbing.
     
    Last edited: Oct 31, 2018
  7. Euroman

    Euroman Well-Known Member

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    There seems to have been an upsurge from the Poppy mafia since the Afgan and Iraq wars. My Mum who was a Wombwell Lass but was a Sheffield Woman of Steel told me in the 1960s she thought it was time to let it go. That generation certainly didn't like to talk about it much, certainly not the lads I worked with in the 60s,70s and 80s who wanted to forget. I lost family in both Wars.
     
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  8. portsmouth tyke

    portsmouth tyke Well-Known Member

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    I wasn't a fan of Thatcher ( well maybe in 1990 when she gave the forces a 12% pay rise) it may have swelled her popularity but I think she got it spot on, to negotiate you also have to give something, there was not a chance in hell the Argies would have walked away with nothing in return, ( IMO) i think if they would have just invaded raised the Argie flag then maybe there was a case for dialogue, but they attacked port stanley and the small contingent of Royal Marines who were posted there. Thats when it became IMO fair game
     
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  9. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    So are servicemen and women in any worse position than the rest of the population when their service is done?
     
  10. How

    HowMuch! Well-Known Member

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    I suggest you reread gosportykes answer to you #31 .
    It might sink in then .
     
  11. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    I did, and thought it a very good and considered reply. I still think the question is valid though. Do you have a view?
     
  12. portsmouth tyke

    portsmouth tyke Well-Known Member

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  13. 36 Chambers

    36 Chambers Active Member

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    Nothing wrong with sticking by your principles but the fans pay his wages so it does seem like he's taking the mickey somewhat.

    Maybe he should play football somewhere else?
     
  14. John Peachy

    John Peachy Well-Known Member

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    Would you play Potts down the middle?
     
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  15. churtonred

    churtonred Well-Known Member

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    He's a footballer employed by the club to play football. I'd presume the club asked him to play for them rather than vice versa. Are we all supposed to surrender our beliefs and values when we accept a job offer?
     
  16. Abruzzo Red

    Abruzzo Red Well-Known Member

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    Thank you for the kind words regarding my reply. In answer to this question, from someone who is currently serving and done 30 years I have seen many things I cannot unsee, I have spent far too long on a parade square at Camp Bastion to say farewell to the fallen. The latter always makes me think about my life and I know that I have PTSD as a result of the this but I recognise this and I have a strong family around me. Please don’t get me wrong, PTSD can hit many people from different backgrounds and jobs so I this is not just a military issue, but alcoholism, homelessness and suicide are above the normal levels for other sectors. Help is out there but it take a courage to ask for it, and unfortunately not enough do. I suppose what I am trying to say is that from my perspective, service personnel are in a worse position when they leave the service. I believe that this is down to being part of a big family when serving and also having that direction and support whilst serving: sadly once people leave they don’t have this and it is very difficult for the majority to come to terms with this. Sorry for the long winded reply!
     
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  17. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    Yes PT. Very well made points.
     
  18. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    Gosport too. Like PT you make some very good points - particularly re PTSD. Thanks for the insight.
     
  19. dreamboy3000

    dreamboy3000 Well-Known Member

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    That's it right there. All who have served in the army are brave and stars for protecting people. However the red poppy should be all about those poor souls sent to their death through no choice of their own, to protect our freedom. They should never ever be forgotten. When buying a red poppy goes towards also those wars since where our governments sent our paid troops who chose to join the army, to go and get involved abroad in other countries business like Syria and Iraq, you can see why some people are against wearing one.
     
  20. Merde Tete

    Merde Tete Well-Known Member

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    I remember watching a very sad documentary a few years ago about the mental scars of those who fought in the Falklands. IIRC four times as many Falklands veterans have committed suicide since the conflict than actually died fighting. It seems like government support for people who've fought in traumatic conflicts is pretty much nil.
     

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