Just Saying

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Ian, Aug 12, 2018 at 5:56 PM.

  1. Ian

    Ian Member

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    Not trying to rock the boat and aware I don’t post on here regularly but believe me I do check the site and digest relevant content daily -

    My point is that I’m surprised all these threads about how poor of a player Potts is or how Moncur (and his mrs) doesn’t belong at the club and especially the lack of future Mowatt was perceived to have are now suddenly forgotten!! - and the same people are now waxing lyracle lol

    Love it and on the bandwagon but come on fickle football fans to the tee

    You reds x
     
  2. Dja

    Django Well-Known Member

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    Same. Genuinely amazes me how many seemed to think that because 16 young, signings with little / no championship experience didn’t gel & fulfil their promise in the first season that they were willing to get rid of most of them.

    There was never anything wrong with our recruitment strategy it was that we had to sign so many in one window that was the problem
     
  3. tyk

    tyketastic Well-Known Member

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    So wasn't having to sign so many in one window itself the problem?
     
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  4. troff

    troff Well-Known Member

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    Don’t post for six months - but choose to log in to do so to call the fans fickle?

    Why? Isn’t never posting, but doing so for only one particular reason quite fickle in itself?

    Yes a lot of Barnsley fans are fickle, maybe all. All club’s football fans are to be fair.

    Let’s be fair though. Potts was often outclassed last season. Mowatt was poor, Moncur thought he was a cut above and didn’t always look interested. Criticism was warranted, though writing them off has proved wrong for those who did that.

    Potts is great at this level, and he was never found wanting for effort.

    Mowatt has come back fighting fit and hungry for success, Moncur is a cut above at this level and will put the effort in from the bench to try and get a start.
     
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  5. Dja

    Django Well-Known Member

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    I mean the recruitment strategy of signing young players & developing them is good, having to sign so many in one summer isn’t. 4 or 5 a years probably about the right amount
     
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  6. fit

    fitzytyke2 Well-Known Member

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    This is about right for me, although I didn't really find a need to be tough on the lads given the quality of opposition most weeks.

    Best thing we all could do was draw a line under last season and give everyone a clean slate.
     
  7. SuperTyke

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    I disagree. I think that rigidly sticking to a flawed strategy directly led to our relegation. Had we signed some experienced players I believe we would have stayed up.

    I also believe that this strategy is a league one strategy and not a championship strategy and again refusing to deviate from what was clearly not working saw us lose £6m
    It might work in this league because the jump isn't as big but it certainly doesn't work in the league above where we are constantly told 'it's a big jump for the players'.
     
  8. Ses

    Sestren Well-Known Member

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    I still think the plan would work if we're willing to pay proper wages. I don't think we got relegated last season because we signed a load of lower league players - we got relegated because we weren't willing to pay our proven Championship players the going rate. I still think we'd have stayed up if the likes of Moncur, McGeehan and Lindsay had been put in alongside, say, Watkins, Scowen and Roberts. Hourihane and Winnall were probably lost causes, but nothing will convince me that we couldn't have kept the other three last summer.
     
  9. Jay

    Jay Well-Known Member

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    Still think Potts has huge flaws in his game. Technical ability basically. His crosses on Saturday were all poor, either over hit or into the stands. Considering we probably have the best two strikers at converting crosses outside of Championship level, and better than the majority in the Championship in Bradshaw (every goal Bradshaw scored last season other than a penalty was him converting a cross, as was the goal on Saturday) , then playing Potts on the wing nullifies our greatest threat as he rarely supplies the forward line with any crosses to feed on. He's big and strong and powerful and he had a good game against Oxford, but we lose a lot by including him in the side in that position, and that one good game on the wing against Oxford is one in a dozen when played as a wide midfield player. Not his fault, I'm sure he doesn't ask to play there or particularly wants to, but I don't think he's anywhere near the all round player that Mowatt and Dougall are in the centre and he'd be a long way behind both in that position. His power and drive are an asset as he proved last week, but his limitations are still very evident.

    Moncur looked tremendous on Saturday. I've seen him play terribly dozens of times. I've seen him not try, and that's hard to stomach.He still has to prove his fitness and I still wouldn't include him in the side at the expense of either Moore, Bradshaw, Mowatt or Dougall, which must be the positions he's in competition for. Stating a player has had a good game when he's played well or that he's had a bad game when he hasn't isn't fickle, it's just observant, it's calling a spade a shovel. (Never got into talking about his wife though, I don't think we should do that, although having read her Twitter statements, I could understand why it happened, but I think we'd be better rising above it).

    Mowatt I can't remember much about prior to this season. I think it's fair to say he didn't make much impression, with either our fans, our management team who sent him out on loan, the Oxford management team who didn't play him much for the first half of the season or the Oxford fans who seem pretty ambivalent about his time there. I suspect he's had a good look in the mirror this close season and asked himself why he was winning the player of the year at a championship club a few years ago, but has gone steadily backwards since. It looks like he's booked up his ideas. But I don't blame anyone for criticising his efforts prior to this season after we spent so much money on him and made him our highest paid player.
     
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  10. Dja

    Django Well-Known Member

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    I’d like to have seen a couple of older heads join last season especially with such a huge turnover of players as I think they’d have helped them settle in quicker.

    I think if this side goes up & we keep most of it together then we’d stay up next season a bit like the last young team that got us up.

    Priority to me has to be to keep the core of the team each season with only 2-3 going at a maximum from the first team each summer.
     
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  11. Red

    Red CB Well-Known Member

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    I do not agree with you , when we down the route of signing experienced players in the championship ,we got relegated without even a whimper & were left with a team full of journeymen who were past their sell buy , at least the group of young players what got relegated last season will have gained priceless experience which will benefit them & the club long term & if we do go back up they will be better prepared.
     
  12. troff

    troff Well-Known Member

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    The team last season was young and inexperienced at the level they found themselves, but they had a relatively inexperienced manager for the first half of the season and the jury is still out as to how good he is, followed by someone who in his three months with us suggested he will never succeed as a football manager whatsoever.

    Lots of things contributed to our relegation but I’ll never be convinced by anyone that they wouldn’t still have survived if they’d appointed even an average quality manager in February. Being well coached, well prepared and properly knowing your role is essential - especially for younger players - yes we are now at a lower level but look at the two performances this season to the ones under morais. Apples and oranges. Even the ones he won seemed chaotic and hectic, not all his doing but he didn’t help at all.
     
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  13. SuperTyke

    SuperTyke Well-Known Member

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    That's the myth that Patrick kept pushing anyway.

    Players that season who made over 10 starts

    Over 26
    Cranie - now in the premiership
    Dawson - left anyway as out of contract
    Kennedy - had only 3 permanent clubs before us
    McCourt - don't sell McCourt, Paddy McCourt
    O'Grady - 15 goals, sold for reported £2m
    Perkins - played 100 times for us
    Ramage - on loan and widely regarded as one of our best performers
    Lawrence - short term signing. Out of contract at end of season
    Like steele - left to play at higher level
    Wiseman - signed as 25 year old

    Under 26
    Butland (on loan)
    Cywka
    Etuhu
    Jennings
    Mellis
    MVoto
    Nyatanga
    O'Brian
    Pederson
     
  14. JLWBigLil

    JLWBigLil Well-Known Member

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    I'm just happy to see our team winning, play attractive football and appreciate the joy it gives. I hope it lasts for the entire season. Criticism when we're doing poorly is understandable, but when we've made the start we have?
     
  15. Ian

    Ian Member

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  16. Spider

    Spider Well-Known Member

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    Of course it was.. poor management
     
  17. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    If only we'd gone for Grayson and Akinfenwe, we'd have 12 points and at least double the goals by now :)
     
  18. Spider

    Spider Well-Known Member

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    If that's your thing then go and watch the under 23s... I'd sooner watch a team of players of Dougals kinda stamp.
     
  19. Spider

    Spider Well-Known Member

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    Maybe Potts Thiam and the rest have just found there level... Look at Hammill, could not get the ball off him in L1. Champ.. average to poor
    We'll not find out how this batch will do until if/when we go back up.
     
  20. icer

    icer Well-Known Member

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    The Youth vs experience, L1 strategy vs Champ strategy can be discussed to death. I don't think its such a polar argument. Im not sure giving players pay rises would have tempted them away from signing for QPR, Norwich, Aston Villa, Sheff Wed. I do agree its about context i.e. current squad, league, budget etc. Also its simply a case of putting together the best set of players that will work as a team to achieve success. Get the balance and quality right and we could stay in the Championship. Of course budgets have a big impact and the skill and ability of the coaching staff and recruitment. Cant keep blaming players if their experience and ability doesn't fit. One things for sure, the Championship strength is increasing, higher wages, bigger transfer fees and more parachute funded clubs.
     

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