Len McCluskey

i’ve quite a bit of time for him normally but he is talking some crap about Brexit and the need to follow the Leader on policy. It doesn’t work like that. It’s not for JC to decide the policy, it’s for the party. And if the party decide they are going into the next election on a remain ticket, then MPs and everyone else should follow that policy.
I voted leave but if the LP go into the next election with their ‘nuanced policy’ they will get smashed. The time for nuance has long since gone.

 

Does when he is paying the bills...

 

Doesn’t Matter. The cult of Leader, whether in a Trade Union or in the LP, has no place in a party the size of the Labour Party. Everyone can have their say but Members decide policy.

 

Both the labour and Tory parties could die tomorrow as far as most of the people I speak to care. No one has any allegiance to parties and their cult nature, people have simply outgrown that kind of thinking.

 

Maybe. But we can run through the options as to who will form the next Govt if you like. Shouldn’t take too long.

 

I agree.

I think it's going to be really interesting - the grassroots are definitely Remain, but also 100% behind Corbyn as far as I can see. Off the top of my head I can't think of a comparable historical occurrence.

 

They can only vote on the policies presented to them...

 

I’m at a loss pal and to be honest with you, most people are stalled of voting for a less shyt party that are in charge. It’s not good enough and that’s why British politics is dead to the voter.

 

And they'll get a policy presented to them which the leader obviously doesn't want. And he'll have to present it anyway. Maybe not well. But he's also been democratically chosen to do it. That's what a democratic party looks like.

 

Undoubtedly Corbyn and McCluskey are leavers, but looking at it just from a pragmatic...electoral winning point of view...full Remain is a dangerous position to hold when 60 odd percent of your parliamentary seats are leave areas.

 

They obviously think so, but I'm not so sure. "Leave areas" makes it sound like there's a massive majority in all of these places, but that wasn't true even before the only real option was a suicidal no-deal Brexit. Pragmatically, as things stand, the Brexit Party will primarily split the right wing vote in those constituencies - they might take a few from Labour, but it'll be relatively small. A Brexit-Conservative deal would change that calculation, but Johnson seems to have lost his bottle when it comes to pushing no deal so I don't think Farage will go for it.

I know that you think there's a reasonable, non right wing working class case for brexit. I'm pretty sure Corbyn would agree with you. But I'm not at all sure it will play out like that at the polls. Brexit is now, more than it ever has been, a project of the right. I think most Labour voters will see that and so, much as I hate to agree with the deputy leader, I'd say a remain stance is the way to go.

 

Its going to be an interesting couple of weeks...

 

It's a shame we can't leave with a deal then vote out the Conservatives and let the tree hugger become PM.

 

Nope.
Len is spot on in what he is saying about Corbyns vital policy on Brexit.

We cannot have Corbyn announcing a conciliatory way forward (although he gives a muddled message) of bringing Leave and Remain voters together while Thornberry, Starmer, Watson are saying Labour is a Remain Party.

If Labour becomes a Remain only party - millions of traditional Labour voters like myself will vote Conservative for the first time.
Boris knows this - hence his visit last week to Socialist Republic of South Yorkshire.
Caroline Flint and Steph Peacock Labour MPs in this area are repeatedly telling the Labour leadership that their once safe seats are now under threat.

Real risk of millions of traditional Labour Leave voters being abandoned by the Labour Party.

 

For summat thats dead to the voter there aint arf been some rattle med for last 3 years and still on it goes.

 

some of us can see past the sh1tshow that is brexit. if you voted leave to fund the vital services in our area voting tory is about the daftest thing ive heard. it wont change. but then why am i surprised by any of this discussion anymore.

 

Rumours in one of the papers (Mail on Sunday) last week that the NCA warned the Tories off a pact with the BxP due to ongoing investigations into the key figures. It would be "extremely embarrassing" for ministers to be close to those figures when charges are bought.

 

And some of us can see past the Sh1tshow that is the European Union.
If we were trying to get into the EU now - and all the agreements we had to sign up to were put to the British people - then NOT in a 1000 years would the British people sign up to that.

For example - if people were asked - should Britain give between £10 to £12 BILLION to the EU every year - and in return they give us £5 BILLION back - but £3.5 billion of that will be given to wealthy land owners ???
Please vote yes or no ?

That’s just one example.

 

If people were asked "Should the UK give between £10 and £12 billion to the EU every year - in return for £5bn back and the opportunity to generate £20-30bn per year on taxes on EU trade". Please vote yes or no, which way would people vote?

Should you open a shop in Meadowhall or Barnsley town centre? - one will be cheaper rent (£27k per year on New Street), but has 10,000 customers walking past each week. The other has a significantly higher rent (£280k per year), but has over 800,000 customers walking past per week..

 

I voted leave but in an election, on current policies, i’d be voting Labour. I’d also suggest that ‘Remain’ is a much more viable position for the party.
If you’re putting forward the proposition that “millions of traditional Labour voters” would abandon the party and vote Conservative because they would place Brexit above all else; the NHS, Social Care, Education, and public services generally, then I would say to my former Labour voting Comrades, you must be as thick as pig sh*t.