MI5 plotted to murder the Irish PM

Further info released at the same time suggests Red Kestrels comrade Gerry Adams set up an IRA gang for ambush by the SAS in 1987.
Following Red Kestrels blinkered way of thinking then this must be true also.

 

Because in the course of ‘war’ everybody has always told the truth and nobody has ever thought ‘ hang on a bit of misinformation might work wonders here’
‘

 

Do you think the security forces used the UVF/UDA to kill people?

 

Yes...people who were involved in killing people

 

This has happened the world over since time immemorial. The jamaican government of the 1970s being a prime example by using the kingstone gangs to murder so many of it's opposition.

 

I'd like to think we should hold our democratic standards higher than Jamaica's. But glad you are willing to admit that our security forces, on behalf of her majesty's government, went out and facilitated extrajudicial killings against British citizens.

 

Nothing to admit as i never suggested otherwise ( perhaps you should take the time to actually read through previous comments)
I am also concerned that you consider 'us' to have higher standards than jamaica, as one could presume this is a racially motivated statement: black is corrupt but us whities have more integrity
No room for racism on here.

 

I'm not starting an argument on this as I can see both sides of the coin.
Should there be extra judicial killings? No.
Should you let known terrorists continue to operate in the knowledge that scores of innocent people will probably die at their hands in the future?
It's a philosophical argument and at the end of the day it boils down to..do you sacrifice one life to save 2 or more? Thankfully it's a call none of us are ever likely to have to make.
On the letter about assassinating Haughey. I'd want to see some independent evidence to back it up.

 

Why the hell shouldn't we when it's an act of self defence.

Happens all the time and more power to those who would keep us safe.

https://www.ft.com/content/4a751f30-557d-11e5-9846-de406ccb37f2

 

"Admitting" something just means to acknowledge its existence, it does not imply you held a contrary view, I just wanted to be sure you understood the context under which such claims about killing the Irish PM were made.
Not sure if you're last sentence is a wind-up, I hope it is, but anyway, there's nothing racist about claiming we should hold our politicians to higher standards then Jamaica as this assertion is based on the evidence of how institutions of democracy are run in both countries - at least on the surface, and is not simply based on the colour of anyone's skin. In the same way, I'd like to think we can say that British democracy is of a higher standard then Russia - again, its based on the objective evidence which can be presented to the argument and has nothing to do with it being "because they're Russian".

 

Who decides something is an act of self-defence if those people making that decision are not held to account?

 

Well lets hope whomever it be doesn't waste too much time and money on endless public enquiries lead by appeasing by limp wristed guardian readers that change nothing.

Lets hope that someone sensible says - yep - irish catholic with a gun - in a protestant area - probably a murderer on his way to murder.

Or Bloke from Bradford or Dewsbury in Syria - wrong side of a line with an AK47 - probably not on his way to the shops for milk.

All fair cop - move on.

And seriously lets not have millions in compensation paid to these terrorists families on a technicality because "due process" was not followed

But to your point - yes there should be accountablity so that we don't go around popping off people we simply don't like - but that accountability should be approached with common sense.

I'm quite happy that decisions to kill terrorists are taken by a small number of people in positions of importance given that's what I pay them for. - for the efficacy of it all I'm glad they're not firstly debated in parliament - or the merits of such debated on question time, have I got news for you and the BBS.

 

What about killing lawyers having tea with their family? Deserves it for sticking up for terrorists I'm guessing your response will be.

 

Your interpretation of common sense seems somewhat out of step with mine then.....

However if by "lawyers sticking up for terrorists" you mean lawyers who take cases of terrorists to the ECHR or insisting they get sky tv in their rooms and access to drugs, etc then I'm all for public humiliation and throwing rotten fruit at them but the guardian and it's readership would probably have something to say about that as well.

 

I understand fully the wider context (you really do have an air of superiority about you don't you?)
This thread however is about a document that is fluffy at best.

In fact we all know this thread is about left-wing socialism.

 

You seem somewhat obsessed with "The Guardian", look, what I object to is people being murdered full stop. While we, the ordinary citizen, cannot hold the IRA army council to account for their murdering ways, we can take a look at our own governments actions and decide if we agree with them or not. I don't agree with killing/punishing people who either have not been on trial or do not pose an immediate risk to anyone. Killing someone carrying out an act of terrorism is not the same as asking the UVF to take out some people you don't like or "suspect" might be terrorists, or indeed who's only crime appears to be representing alleged terrorists in court.

 

Everything you've said there is more about you on this thread ... every odd comment is by u on your high horse..

 

Really? Think your response says a lot more about you.
Thought the basis of a forum was to elicit response.

 

response ? Debate? ..seems you were wanting to shut people up .. It's pointless responding to comments when it's not based on fact or slating other posters.
Btw. Why would "Adams be my comrade" ?? Is it cos am from an Irish background? .

 

The first half of your reply is in fact a description of yourself.
I had no idea you have an irish background: this naturally makes your argument partial.
The thing is, i'm a socialist. I probably agree with the majority of what you believe in (domestically). The problem i have is the way you deliver your point of view. If anyone disagrees then that's it. You are as guilty as those from the far right in attempting to deny democratic debate.
I would hazard a guess that you are from a different generation from me.