Minority Report 2017/18 v Birmingham City

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Red Rain, Nov 4, 2017.

  1. Jul

    Julian Broddle's Perm Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2016
    Messages:
    2,354
    Likes Received:
    4,226
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Red Rain, the most sensible, reasoned and potentially nicest poster on here, has had his Bovril spiked.
    Who did this???!!!!
     
  2. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 7, 2009
    Messages:
    11,240
    Likes Received:
    10,618
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    "I am concerned about the type of football we are playing."


    I've come to believe that the 4-5-1 system (some say it is 4-1-4-1) is by far the system best suited to our group of players. I've said why before (and reprised that view in my response to Young Nudger's preposterous (WUM?) post of yesterday). But broadly speaking, the evidence of match outcomes suggest that it is the system most likely to produce results for us. I believe it has also produced some very entertaining displays in our games (though not all of them, obviously). Tom Bradshaw is not being played as a "target man" - he is just the most advanced player. Naturally there will be occasions when the ball is played in the air to him when the defenders have to release it under pressure from opposing forwards. But our goals overwhelmingly come from 'on the ground' moves.

    It's to be hoped that the takeover goes through. Hecky in his interview yesterday alluded to the fact that the team on Tuesday had an average age of about 21.5 years. He said their peak would probably come nearer to when they are 26 but that "the chances of working with these players for another four years are probably very slim". That for me is the most important thing about added funds coming into the club - the ability to hold on to what we are building. Clearly that won't be all of the loan players. Harvey Barnes is a phenomenal prospect and I'm quite sure Leicester City know what they've got there. He is a star of the future. But our own players are promising too. Their progress clearly has to generate added interest and revenue, because the injection of a little more money will not be expected to be a one-way street. But that's what we need to remain at thie level, if not to take it to a higher one.
     
  3. Che

    Chef Tyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    18,330
    Likes Received:
    10,550
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    West Stand Bogs
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley


    I don’t get to go as much as I used to due to family and other commitments. Annoyingly today was my first match of the season.

    So just to redress the balance, a few points:-

    Yiadom and Fryers as an attacking force were outstanding. You could see their over-lap work had been very well drilled with the wingers and watching us play with that much pace is hugely exciting.

    It was that pace and overload that led to the first goal. Bradshaws kept up with that exceptional move.

    Throughout the first half we were much the better side. We deserve credit for that deserve credit for how poor Birmingham looked. We pressed in midfield very very well and should have been another goal up. I reiterate some of Yiadoms attacking play and link with Isgrove was sensational. We totally controlled the midfield and therefore the game.

    Isgrove should have scored but for a great saw. We came close on a number of other occasions.

    Second half, we didn’t play so well but held them at arms length. That’s called managing the game. It is difficult to play a high press for 95 minutes, if not impossible. We let them have a few chances but in truth they rarely threatened.
    A team that has spent millions.

    I was also very impressed with Liam Lindsay at the back. Very solid and excellent distribution.

    I throughly enjoyed myself, a huge improvement on the forest performance earlier in the season that I managed to watch on TV.

    Hecky continues to demonstrate that he is one the more talented managers in the league and the team is showing signs of gelling. I said at the start of the season that if he keeps us up then it will be as much an achievement as league one promotion and stick by that. It is looking more than likely that he will achieve that goal, and possibly some more.
     
    ScubaTyke and East_Stand_Tyke like this.
  4. East_Stand_Tyke

    East_Stand_Tyke New Member

    Joined:
    May 18, 2015
    Messages:
    6
    Likes Received:
    7
    Trophy Points:
    3
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Tarn
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    You can only play what’s put in front of you. A comfortable win against a poor side. Job done!
     
  5. Old

    Old Gimmer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    4,036
    Likes Received:
    4,160
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I'm not taking pot-shots at you. And I'm not disappearing either. You are, as are we all, totally entitled to air your views, and they are just as relevant as mine or anyone else's. But you do tend to present them in a way that provokes a certain type of response. Perhaps that's your intention. As for emotion, would you accept that if you were to exclude emotion and replace it with pure rationality, then many of us would not be following our club anyway?
     
  6. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    4,810
    Likes Received:
    2,863
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Wombwell
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I do not believe that Young Nudger, or for that matter Hemsworth Tyke write stuff on here simply to wind up the majority. I think that they are simply wrong. People often claim that I try to wind people up as well. There might be a strong argument that I am wrong, and I would welcome the chance of arguing the points that I make through with them, but sadly you are the only poster that is prepared to talk about the game in any depth, and my truly satisfying discussions about the game are consequently very limited.

    What I meant yesterday when I wrote "I am concerned about the type of football we are playing" was nothing to do with the system that we played. Like yourself, on balance I favour 4-5-1 at the minute. It is to do with the style that we are playing. You just do not pick a little guy at centre forward and then lump it 50 yards in his general direction. You have to get the ball on the floor and get the ball wide where we have pace. The reason that the upper tiers of our game moved away from the traditional way of playing 4-4-2, where lumping the ball forward was an accepted and valid way of playing the game, was that it subjected possession to the lottery of the first competitive heading duel. In the modern game, possession is considered much more important than field position. With possession, movement, accurate passing and good first touch you can create the most valuable things in our game, time and space. It was not that we did not create anything yesterday. We created at least 4 more good chances, but we created them because Birmingham were very poor. If we had been playing a better side, then that careless use of possession would have lost us the game.

    So why was I so down upon our midfield, and in particular on Brad Potts. Well, the way that a team plays the game originates from how its midfield plays. It is they who set the tempo and the style. It is they who determine how the team plays. A team with quality in that area has the confidence to seek space when the ball is won back. It has the accuracy of pass to hit short, staccato passes to team mates that open up the opportunity to get forward at pace and to make space for others as the opposition struggles to cover the gaps created. That is the way that the game is played by the better teams in our division and the division above.

    Now my argument about playing with a better style is defeated if the argument is used that our players are not skill enough to play that way. It is defeated if the argument is used that we played the game on the break after that early goal. But that is not what happened last night. I was effectively accused of disloyalty because I questioned anything after the team had won. But to my mind, that is exactly the right time to raise these questions, a time when there is less pressure on the next result. It disappoints me that this place is not, and never can give me what I want. It is simply somewhere to go for people to share the elation of victory or the disappointment of defeat, and not a place for debate or education, and in spite of what others think, I yearn to be educated.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2017
  7. Che

    Chef Tyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    18,330
    Likes Received:
    10,550
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    West Stand Bogs
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley
    I’ll educate you - it’s ‘concern’, not ‘consern’


    Please explain exactly how our other chances were as a result of Birmingham’s poor play, rather than our good play.

    I doubt very much I’ll get a response which is fairly ironic when you claim to champion debate.

    I think you make some decent points sometimes but they are made in such a manifestly negative manner to the point where it brings your credibility into question.

    We are doing some great things on limited resources. The work rate for example in the first half was tremendous

    I do not buy in to arguments that one team only won because the other was poor. Think about it. its a game between two teams; if they looked poor it is axiomatic that we contributed to making them look poor.

    Cheer up!!!!!
     
  8. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    4,810
    Likes Received:
    2,863
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Wombwell
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I guess that my style was developed through the writing of regular reports when I was working. Try to ignore the style if it upsets you, and deal with the content. Of course, football is an emotional game. We all want our team to win. But an analysis that is done by someone in the grip of his emotions is bound to be influenced by them. I generally walk home alone after the game after I leave my friends at Stairfoot. It takes me another hour to get home during which time my emotions drain away and my analytical side kicks in. I think about the game, the balance of play, what we did well and how we could improve. Of course, I am not a pro and never have been. I would love to know more about the game, and I seek that education by trying to debate with posters on here. The problem for me is that others refuse to enter into debate with me. They would rather take pot shots based upon their perception of my character. Mostly, I let it pass, but yesterday my frustration provoked a response. Perhaps I should just accept that the BBS will never be what I want it to be, and walk away.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2017
  9. Sta

    Stahlrost Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2006
    Messages:
    21,105
    Likes Received:
    13,025
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Gender:
    Male
    Occupation:
    None
    Location:
    Dodworth
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley Dark
    Definite red card, sawing Izzy's leg off as he was about to shoot. No idea how the ref missed it, but well done to Izzy for carrying on.
     
    Chef Tyke likes this.
  10. Old

    Old Gimmer Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    4,036
    Likes Received:
    4,160
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I don't think it's true to say that no-one will have a debate with you. In fact I would have thought this is exactly what we are doing. For example, you have been challenged regarding your opinion of Potts, and I took issue with your dismissal of Paul Digby. Perhaps that's the point. You tend to talk systems, whereas some of us see footballers as human beings who are engaged in a benign 'battle' in which emotion is more important than rationality. That's why my weekend is great when we win and much less so when we lose. Anyway, 'keep posting' (to paraphrase another favourite Saturday pastime of mine!)
     
  11. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    4,810
    Likes Received:
    2,863
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Wombwell
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Thanks for the note about the spelling error. I've fixed it now.

    Why do you want to bring character and animosity into a debating chamber. Why can we both not begin with a mutual respect for one another and hope to continue that respect through our conversation. Why can you not attempt to educate me without first trying to alienate me. Oh, and I have no concern about my credibility. It is not something that I have any effect on as it is based on opinion.

    I do not disagree that this team has amazing work rate. What I do have a problems with is that so much of that work rate is needed in order to win the ball back again having launched it 50 yards when we last won possession back. Work rate is always going to be part of football, whether your players are brilliant or average. It is how much of that work that is wasted that worries me, and at the moment the answer is lots of it.

    If you do not go to many games, you probably did not see Middlesborough. We got a 2-2 draw in that game after building an early lead and trying to hang on. The fact that we had so little possession in that game was a big factor in the final result, that and the fact that Middlesborough are a much better team than Birmingham. Perhaps, if you had been at the game, my comments about Birmingham being very very poor would have made more sense.
     
  12. Dja

    Django Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Messages:
    10,388
    Likes Received:
    6,773
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I see a lot of comments about launching it 50 yards but lots of the time there’s no alternative.

    We clearly look to play out from the back & there’s been an obvious change in Adam Davies who looks to throw the ball out as much as possible.

    Sometimes you have to launch it long, if there’s no short pass on it has to go long, there’s no alternative. It happens to Man City at times so it sure as hell will happen to Barnsley.

    Some teams will press us & force us to go long, against Sunderland for example we barely had to go long because they didn’t really press us, probably because they’ve got a bunch of players who can’t really be arsed.

    Sometimes you have to clear the lines & all push up 20 yards.

    Only the very best can play out every time so we have to look for alternatives like Bradshaw going up against the weaker centre back or Potts going up against a full back which we already do
     
  13. Che

    Chef Tyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    18,330
    Likes Received:
    10,550
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    West Stand Bogs
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley

    My post didn’t have any animosity in it? It was merely an observation based on many of your posts. Your posts are inclined to find the negative and I find it tiresome.

    This club has been on an upward curve in the last few years, yet your posts seem to be, on the whole, negative. There’s an interesting juxtaposition there.

    Finishing off your post with a thinly veiled criticism about me not seeing another match doesn’t really stick to be honest.

    All I am saying is that your posts are imbalanced - you say some decent stuff - totally agree that we played it long too much yesterday and we could have relaxed more on the ball to manage the game for the last 30. However, I don’t understand why your posts have to be so negative - this isn’t a personal attack or criticism of your character as you suggest.
     
  14. fit

    fitzytyke2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2016
    Messages:
    7,146
    Likes Received:
    3,326
    Trophy Points:
    113
    I've noticed there are several similar posts about yesterday. Young Nudger has similarly posted about the long balls up to Bradshaw.

    Of course everyone's welcome to their opinion, but I find the timing a bit odd with yesterday's posts.

    I thought generally played better yesterday than we did on Tuesday, yet there was very little criticism of anything in a dour game that was punctuated with goals.
     
    Jimmy viz likes this.
  15. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    4,810
    Likes Received:
    2,863
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Wombwell
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Can I recommend that you read Minority Report for the Hull City game which we lost. In the midst of all the doom and gloom I was a lone voice that said the game was a lottery of first goal winner because of the conditions. In fact my posts under the Minority Report banner are usually an attempt to explain why things were done the way they were done, rather than any criticism. I'm afraid you have made a sweeping generalisation based on one post which is mildly critical based upon the reasons given throughout the thread.
     
  16. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    4,810
    Likes Received:
    2,863
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Wombwell
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Sorry, I do not go to away games so I do not comment.
     
  17. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    4,810
    Likes Received:
    2,863
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Wombwell
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Of course, you are right, but it is more than the odd lump from a player under pressure. There was a clear and consistent method to our play which often saw Potts wide right in an attempt to match his greater height with someone who he might beat in the air.

    It is clearly just me, but I see the use of the long ball as a reversion to a system of play that I do not like and do not think effective at the higher levels of the game.
     
  18. Dja

    Django Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2013
    Messages:
    10,388
    Likes Received:
    6,773
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I just don’t think we go long more than your average championship side. I could be wrong as I’ve no stats to back me up but I probably watch too much football & I’d say at least half of our league go long more often than we do.

    I think it’s more a modern thing due to the exposure to more premiership than ever & La Liga etc where it doesn’t happen as much which makes many of our fans think we go long too often.

    I don’t think we go long anywhere near as much as we did with Gray & Macken up front & then O’Grady.

    I’d say only Hill’s side that were close to the play offs & the league one promotion team are the only sides of ours that’s played less long ball in probably the last 10 years
     
  19. Che

    Chef Tyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    18,330
    Likes Received:
    10,550
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    West Stand Bogs
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley
    The majority of your posts are negative.

    You must acknowledge that?
     
  20. Red

    Red Rain Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 8, 2005
    Messages:
    4,810
    Likes Received:
    2,863
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Wombwell
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    No, I do not, but you are welcome to search under "Minority Report" and draw to my attention any that you believe are.
     

Share This Page