Position of Barnsley ....... in the scheme of things

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Young Nudger, Aug 12, 2019 at 8:20 AM.

  1. Young Nudger

    Young Nudger Well-Known Member

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    Ok - it’s not good losing against Wednesday.
    But was it unexpected???
    It was definitely unexpected that we won against Fulham.

    We have to step back and take a hard and wider look at what is happening at Barnsley.
    Listen carefully to what people at the club are saying.

    As far as I’m concerned - and the directors will probably agree with me here - the Wednesday game was only game number two at the start of the new owners journey.
    Last season and this last close season was all about sorting the mess out at the club and pointing the club in a NEW DIRECTION.

    Twelve players purchased.
    All of them young players.
    All of them on 4+ year contracts.

    However, Barnsley at this current moment in time are going to be hard pressed to beat teams full of highly paid old campaigners that you see at clubs like Wednesday.
    Players such as Winnall on £1 million per year for sitting in the dressing room.

    But there is a limit that these types of clubs can operate at before the brakes are put on.
    Hence Wednesday having to go through financial somersaults, selling their ground to the owner etc, to keep the boat afloat.

    Wednesday are hoping that they can gain promotion with the large amount of money being spent there at the moment.
    If they don’t - then in the next few seasons - as the Barnsley players mature as individuals and as a team - there will be a crossing over point between Barnsley and Wednesday.
    Mark my words on this.

    When that happens Wednesday under their current business strategy will need to throw £££millions at their team to try and compete with Barnsley.
    Will the Wednesday owner be able to maintain that level of layout in the next few seasons ???
    With what’s been said recently i don’t think he will.
    And although I’m basing this post on Wednesday - other clubs in the Championship can be put into this category - Leeds for example.

    Paul Conway was right when he said this close season has been the best in Barnsley’s history.

    In the meantime this season there is going to be a roller coaster ride of results at Barnsley - and especially so in the period leading up to Christmas as the players become accustomed to playing in this new team.

    As Paul Conway said - this season is all about securing a place in the Championship.
    It’s an important season at Barnsley - one that they are laying down the foundations to build on.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019 at 8:26 AM
  2. Austiniho

    Austiniho Well-Known Member

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    This is a very good post and way of seeing things.... unless we sell out when the players start to show signs of being any good.
     
  3. Young Nudger

    Young Nudger Well-Known Member

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    Two risks:
    1) Will this new team survive this season in the Championship (I think they will).

    2) As you say - selling the players if they become any good (most will I think) - and they will be sold if the money is right - which is fine.
    But my concern beyond that is - what happens in 3 years time when nearly all these young players have just one year left on their contracts ?
    Do we revert back to the old strategy of throwing the baby out with the bath water?
     
  4. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    Can't disagree with the sentiment.
    The obvious fly in the ointment is if we are relegated. That throws everything out, eats 2 years of contractual time, thus diminishing potential value and steals potential championship experience from the kids. Its also more dangerous having 4-5 contracts. Harder to get rid if they become an issue and more expensive to keep in a league with less revenue (though I think there is some protocol where youth players wages and long contracts aren't counted?)
    Vital we stay up this year
     
  5. lk3

    lk311 Well-Known Member

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    You mentioned the 4-5 year contracts aspect and as I read YN post a thought occurred to me, based on two assumptions:
    1) We stay up
    2) We want to improve year on year.
    By keeping the players with these contracts and by default of experience they will become better but will this reduce our ability to recruit ‘better’ players next year?
    Could we be in the position where we can’t sell players for money we want to free spaces for better players?
     
  6. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    It's feasible. The unknown is if these players are good enough to then be lucrative potential signings for mid to top end champ teams and higher (and we likely won't know for half a season or more). If we're wanting progression to sign better players, that's where we then need to be selling a few now and then. Or, retaining someone who is clearly good enough and getting non financial benefit through performance and results. Something we've not been able to do to date.

    If they aren't good enough for Prem or top Champ teams, we'll either keep them if they are good enough to keep us in this division and lower bottom half, or, we have to take a hit to subsidise their exit.
     
  7. ScubaTyke

    ScubaTyke Active Member

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    Good post. I am expecting to see a small turnover of players each window now so that we have improvements in the squad and continuity in the team at the same time.
     
  8. Young Nudger

    Young Nudger Well-Known Member

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    Yep - that’s my view.
    Not all these new players will be successful.
    We could add in January if Daniel thinks there’s a position that is letting us down.
     
    Last edited: Aug 12, 2019 at 1:53 PM
  9. Young Nudger

    Young Nudger Well-Known Member

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    This initial thread applies to ALL matches this season - including games against Carlise and Charlton.
    Player such as Halme and Sykes DO NOT suddenly become poor footballers overnight.
    As Barnsley supporters we have to be very very patient this season.
    Support these young players - no matter what happens !!!
    Given time, and giving these young players our support, eventually Daniel will sort things out.
     
  10. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

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    Good post.

    A sensible strategy (well to me anyway and what do I know?) is to see how the current strategy goes up to Christmas and if all is going well i.e., the players are holding their own and developed sufficiently to mean we are mid-table, continue in the same vein and strengthen along the current lines. If not, they may need to bite the bullet and bring in two or three experienced Championship players to steady the ship. I suspect, and hope, they looking at both options and identifying potential targets for the next transfer window with a plan A and a plan B. Any failure to do so resulting in relegation would be a huge setback for their declared long term strategy of establishing Barnsley in the Championship and push on for all the reasons YN outlined
     
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  11. Barnsleyshaun

    Barnsleyshaun Active Member

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    One question is, have we signed players on four year deals to keep them longer, or, so when they are sold in 18 months to 2 years time they are worth more as have longer left on their contracts.

    We may still see the same turnover of players but for more money coming in, hopefully not. An interesting stat posted on Twitter was:

    Average Reds apps for debutants in 2011 or afterwards: 29*
    Average Reds apps for debutants from 2001 to 2010: 42

    That’s just 29 appearances on average before a player leaves, I just think that’s too short and there’s no way of getting a settled team that can improve year on year. Who’s our longest serving player now and how my appearances have they had, how many seasons have they been with us?

    I hope we can alter from 6/7 new players in the first team every year to 3/4 at the most, this would surely help.
     
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  12. Shy Talk

    Shy Talk Well-Known Member

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    Thiam has most appearances with (I think) 84
     
  13. Old

    Old Gimmer Well-Known Member

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    I don’t understand the emphasis on longer contracts. Surely all it means is that the selling price should be higher. I don’t take it to mean that players will not be sold because we are trying to build a competitive team. I know that some people believe that selling for a higher price allows us to recruit better quality with the proceeds, but presumably all it really means is that we’ll have an annual rebuild if any of our better players attract any sort of acceptable offer.
     
  14. John Peachy

    John Peachy Well-Known Member

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    That is the bottom line.
     
  15. ScubaTyke

    ScubaTyke Active Member

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    I am still hoping that the plan is to build a competitive team hence the longer contracts. The board have stated that progressing up the Championship is the aim and we know that the only way that they can make serious money from player sales is by selling Premiership players (making 6 million profit between them a season seems kinda pointless given their current net worths). We have been told repeatedly that all profits will be reinvested and have currently no reason to doubt this. Is the problem that as fans we are looking for instant results? The owners are taking a longer term view than us. Is DS creating a team of youngsters that in a couple of seasons will be playing like the team we all want now and instantly? I don’t see us being relegated this season, next season I see us being a much better team that knows each other’s play well but with less changes in the window than this time. I could be wrong but this seems to be the most plausible explanation.
     
  16. RedStriker

    RedStriker Well-Known Member

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    Nudge, someone has hacked your account.
     
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  17. Old

    Old Gimmer Well-Known Member

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    It’s difficult to know if all profits are being reinvested when all transfers are for undisclosed amounts. But at a guess I would imagine that this summer has generated a healthy surplus.
     
  18. Durkar Red

    Durkar Red Well-Known Member

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    Chien has just text me ‘ I agree with Nudge ‘
     
  19. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    Nudge has an opinion and we’re entitled to it .
     
  20. Cam

    Cambridge Red Well-Known Member

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    There is a second fly in the ointment ... us the fans.
    Will we stick with the inevitable ups & downs that this season will bring, or will there be a clamour for heads to roll if we find ourselves in a relegation battle (which we more than likely will).
    Do we (as fans) have the bottle to ride it out & accept that this is a long term strategy. I worry that we won't and that negativity will creep in. Its all about momentum & a positive outlook for me.
    We're barely 2 weeks into the season and this board has gone from 'I genuinely think we're dark horses this year' to 'well that's what you get when you sell your best striker & defenders'
     

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