Putting aside for a moment the uninformed criticism ...

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Tekkytyke, May 14, 2017.

  1. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

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    ...by some on here aimed at Government departments Hospital Trust Managers and Local Authorities by people who have no idea about how complex IT projects work:

    Since we are likely to have more of these attacks and are always going to play catch up as hackers find and exploit flaws in IT software, is it not time to legislate against Bit coins which prevent identification of the perpetrators and provided cover for illegal money laundering operations and other criminal activities. I confess to not knowing much about bitcoins other than the number of 'unmined' coins is rapidly falling and that the value of each bitcoin is highly volatile. I read somewhere that they are considered very useful but am unsure to whom (other than dodgy enterprises) Since there is a finite number once they have all been mined I am not sure what the long term future is either.
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    On the subject of blaming Governments of all flavours and ministers for security failings. Many major corporations and private sector have also been caught up in the latest 'Ransomware' attack so the problem isn't just confined to the public sector. Lead times for upgrading OS can be very long and costs very high particularly when bespoke software is incompatible with new OS. Due diligence, Risk vs cost assessments can be long and complex. Microsoft stopped support for XP some time ago so security patches are no longer sent out but many companies still use it as the cost of rewriting all their bespoke SW is prohibitive . Even a simple security OS update on Win10 for you and I cannot simply be rolled out since they have to be tested by companies IT departments to ensure they dont screw up the software running on it.

    In many instances Company Directors and CEOs (the ones with the purse strings) are, understandably, not very IT literate and often don't take seriously IT department red flags until it is too late as they adopt a " it wont happen to us" attitude. They often prioritise shareholders and dividends and other capital investment over IT requirement.

    Some can be a soft touch for IT suppliers (HW and SW) who 'promise the Earth' for their latest products re price, delivery and functionality (often quoting and agreeing unrealistic lead times) the sales/bid team having got 'pen to paper' then pass it to the design and implementation team to deliver the 'impossible' . Oh! and then you get , particularly in public sector 'requirements creep' which further delays delivery times . (I am sure Jimmy Cricket will know ll this if he has had dealings with Public Sector from the sound of it) . I worked in IT/Telecomms on Government projects as well as Private sector for several years and saw all that. On most occasions budget was the least of our problems it was managing customer expectation.
     
  2. Con

    Conan Troutman Well-Known Member

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    I know this is an open forum, but it is primarily a forum related to Barnsley Football Club.
     
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  3. Wat

    Watcher_Of_The_Skies Well-Known Member

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    From April 2014 following the announcement Microsoft would provide extended support to the Govt for patches and updates to XP at the cost of £5.5m.

    In April 2015 that contract ran out and the government chose not to extend it. In December 2016 out of 70 trusts contacted 40 were still running XP. St Barts in London (which was badly hit this week) still has 10,000+ machines using XP. They have already had several attacks, the last one in January this year when largely under the media radar it suffered a malware attack.

    The simple fact is that with a lack of funding generally for the NHS, the majority of that is funnelled into the struggling primary care sector, leaving IT lagging behind. To site other companies suffering the same issue is a like saying, "Look, I may have left my front door open and been burgled, but plenty of other people do it too!" It happened on the Govt's watch.

    In 2012/13 the Conservative Government gave big business £93bn in direct aid, subsidies and tax breaks. Yet it goes on about cutting the NHS services, running it down and then privatising it so their rich chums can make money. Frankly Id line these tossers up and frog march them into the Thames. They're nothing but carpetbaggers. They have no place in a caring civilised society that we want to see. Enemies of the people, the lot of them.

    Vote Tory and you'll get everything you deserve. You have been warned.
     
  4. Wat

    Watcher_Of_The_Skies Well-Known Member

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  5. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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  6. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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  7. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    It's easy to understand that NHS Trusts given responsibility but no budget cannot take responsibility for summat.


    Sent from my iPad using Barnsley FC BBS Fans Forum
     
  8. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    You have points about creep. Funding in this instance is pretty much the whole problem (and a lack of understanding about the implications of possible attacks). Basically responsibility was devolved to trusts but no funding provided. The Welsh Assembly recognised that this was a flawed plan and acted. Westminster was provided the same information and didn't. Labour also woefully underfunded this area.

    Of course other businesses were impacted. And you would expect if there has been managerial negligence then this will result in action I would imagine. but the majority of those other institutions were dealing with life and death. You could reasonable expect central government to take a lead or at least provide funding on this issue.


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  9. Wat

    Watcher_Of_The_Skies Well-Known Member

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    And how many computers did they have affected? That's right boys and girls. Zero.

    Which is quite an effort when you look at this report from 2010.
     
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  10. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    It is out of my skill set, but one of the security experts at my place has looked at the bitcoin blockchain and seen at least one NHS trust has paid (this was on Friday) to have the files unlocked. They are just waiting now for the perpetrators to try to extract the bitcoins out, then they will have them with an evidence trail proving who did it.

    Due to how they are generated, the blockchain keeps all transaction records, so it is possible to trace the history of individual bitcoins and find the source and destination at any stage of the lifecycle. It is actually harder to launder bitcoins than it is to launder real money.
     
  11. BarnsleyReds

    BarnsleyReds Well-Known Member

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    The issue is that sending addresses and receiving addresses are completely different and there is nothing to link them together as far as i know.
     
  12. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

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    As I said I know **** all about bitcoins other than what I have read on the internet but I thought that the encryption rendered traceability of payments impossible and that this is what the main appeal is for those that deal in bitcoins.

     
  13. Tek

    Tekkytyke Well-Known Member

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    I thought the Govt had earmarked 50 m for NHS to improve security and Fallon has alleged that trusts were warned of vulnerabilities to cyber attacks.
    You sound like you are far closer to the issue than I am so will know whether or not that is spin or not. Kudos to you if you were involved in the devolved Welsh assembly taking IT security seriously. IT is a difficult job to get the treasury to cough up funding for something that isn't headlining like HS2 but is far more critical to national security.
     
  14. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    I just provided some information in Wales. Better people than me did the convincing!

    Completely agree about the security aspect but trying to convince people who matter is like trying to convince my 5 year old that Kale is better than ice cream.

    The alleged money is unfortunately a politicians slight of hand trick. Labour before the coalition had funding a low priority under the Coalition it became no priority and nothing has changed since then.

    A fair enough summary.

    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/u...arning-signs-outdated-computers-a7734961.html

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  15. orsenkaht

    orsenkaht Well-Known Member

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    If you had a home computer and you were running XP or Vista into this year then you will have been getting regular messages that these systems would no longer be supported by Chrome, IE, Mozilla, etc and would therefore vulnerable to attack. That's bad enough on a home computer, but on a national health service provider it is a potentially disastrous situation, with the possibility to affect life or death issues, to say nothing of the confidentiality issues it raises. NHS gurus are trying now to argue that old legacy systems were not commonplace, but I don't buy that because they would not then have had the vulnerability that they have experienced. It is absolutely unforgivable. If security of data and management systems could not be guaranteed then NHS bosses should have admitted defeat and reverted to paper-based systems unless or until they could guarantee secure data systems. It speaks volumes that the hapless Jeremy Hunt has been nowhere to be seen this weekend. If his handling of the junior doctors crisis and the GP shortage were not bad enough, we have this fiasco, which borders on criminal negligence (and I do not use that phrase lightly). There is no defending of this situation, and those involved would do better to hold their hands up.

    Regarding bitcoins and blockchain technology, the whole point of them is their anonymity, with all that that entails, for good or bad. Bitcoin can not be legislated against whilever there are people who are prepared to accept it as a means of exchange. With blockchain technology as I understand it, while all transactions are visible, there is no central administrating body which can be held accountable - so the individuals using it under conditions of anonymity are unassailable if I have understood it all correctly. That has huge implications for my sport of horseracing, but arguably even deeper ones for the economy and society as a whole.
     
  16. BarnsleyReds

    BarnsleyReds Well-Known Member

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    That's pretty much correct. Basically, you can send me some bitcoin and it is recorded that your sending address sent it to my receiving address. The issue is that I can receive to my 'account' from many different receiving addresses. The other issue is that if I then sent those bitcoin to someone else, my 'sending' address is not associated in any way to the receiving addresses I used earlier. As such, you cannot track what is being sent where.
     
  17. Til

    Tilertoes Well-Known Member

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    I understand what you're saying but scowen grew into the full back role after a shaky start but we missed his energy in midfield.
     
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  18. John Peachy

    John Peachy Well-Known Member

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    A properly funded health service includes it's IT service. We all know the Tories are driving it into the ground, so it can sell off to US companies to take over.

    There are issues like the fact some patient data is not backed up that is inexcusable though & any IT managers responsible should be taking a short walk off a long plank.
     
  19. upt

    upthecolliers Well-Known Member

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    All's not lost Amber Rudd and that health minister Hunt (should be spelt with a C ) are chairing a COBRA meeting today to sort it all out.
    Makes you want to spew.
     
  20. Sco

    Scoff Well-Known Member

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    QUOTE="John Peachy, post: 1967504, member: 54207"]A properly funded health service includes it's IT service. We all know the Tories are driving it into the ground, so it can sell off to US companies to take over.

    There are issues like the fact some patient data is not backed up that is inexcusable though & any IT managers responsible should be taking a short walk off a long plank.[/QUOTE]

    To be fair to IT people. We always try to do the right thing, but that doesn't stop directors and accountants knocking us back on cost (and other such) reasons. I've had a CTO trying to insist we remove the firewall protecting a critical database from the Internet because it was slowing the application down so it isn't just limited to the public sector. I've also seen government departments refuse to spend money on essential upgrades or block improvements for weeks or months leaving the system vulnerable.

    Having said that, the lack of backups should have been listed on the RAID log or risks register and signed off by someone at director-level though. And *they* should take the rap for it.
     

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