The Elephant In The Room

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by Conan Troutman, Dec 3, 2017.

  1. Con

    Conan Troutman Well-Known Member

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    I don't mean Brad Potts lumbering around the pitch like one.

    On a personal level I wish Patrick all the best in his fight against a cruel and unforgiving illness. I honestly do. That said, it should not make him immune to even the slightest criticism. Where we are now is entirely down to him. People are trying to claim Hecky hasn't done this or Linton Brown didn't do that, Maurice Watkins was never there etc etc. It's all irrelevant. The man making all the decisions, choosing the difection of the club and controlling the purse strings is the owner. No one else. And he's making a pig's ear of it. This takeover is absolutely vital for the future of the club and I am desperate for it to go through. Without it we will be nothing more than a League One-Championship yo yo club. The Plan makes this inevitable.

    In Patrick's much praised statement he said he had been criticised on the internet. I disagree. Even before his announcement he was receiving almost unanimous praise and worship with the few dissenters being shouted down. Being in a high profile position in football means you will be criticised and you should expect it - players, managers and custodians.

    I can predict 99.9% of the responses now but it dunt wash wi me. I have had a season ticket every year of Patrick's tenure. I'm entitled to my opinion and I'm having it. I have not supported this strategy from day one and never will. The only way we will be competitive is with new owners or a massive rethink. If there's no evidence of either between now and May then I've a decision to make.
     
  2. Sta

    Stahlrost Well-Known Member

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    Wow, never heard that before. Yawn, and ignore..........
     
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  3. Redstar

    Redstar Well-Known Member

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    What a disappointing response.
     
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  4. Con

    Conan Troutman Well-Known Member

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    Boredom sets into the boring mind.
     
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  5. Con

    Conan Troutman Well-Known Member

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    Predictable really. He's someone who has very little to say. Unless it's abart tickets in legends suite.
     
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  6. red

    redrum Well-Known Member

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    Eat, sleep, post, repeat.
     
  7. Redstar

    Redstar Well-Known Member

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    Chortle
     
  8. red

    redrum Well-Known Member

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    Bring back the reave at least he was funny repeatable but funny.
     
  9. Con

    Conan Troutman Well-Known Member

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    Another great thinker in our midst.
     
  10. Redstar

    Redstar Well-Known Member

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    Has he had the guts to say Hecky Out yet?
     
  11. YTBFC

    YTBFC Well-Known Member

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    Do you mean you want to see us as more than a mid-table/relegation battler in the Championship? And that we need more money to achieve that. Therefore the current ownership and the model it’s running needs replacing?

    You want more from your club, basically?

    That’s fair enough. I too would love to see us mixing it further up. Not sure throwing money at it will achieve that, mind.

    And I really can’t agree with those pulling the model/plan/blueprint to bits.

    After one year back up, after a model that took us from the foot of L1 to 14th in the Championship. A model that sees the club self-sustainable. One that currently sees us 19th and four points clear of the drop zone.

    If we got your wish, if we had new owners who were to throw money at everything, would we all of a sudden get more than 10,000 fans inside the ground?

    People suggest we sign older heads, proven players. I kind of agree that we are too young a side at present and it can show. But over the years, I’m struggling to think of many older heads (on big money) who’ve been a roaring success here. Our better business has been the unknowns we’ve signed of which there have been many. The sort of players that were written off and mocked upon arrival, in fact, some were written off about 13 months ago by yourself and others on here during that run of 5 defeats in 6. Then lauded as top Championship players when they left. And as much as they all performed very well for us at times, they did so as part of Hecky’s team. Of those departures, who or how many are tearing it up this season?

    You’re right that it’s not as good a team now. But it was never going to be ace overnight. I know patience is underrated, but it helps. As does context or seeing the whole of a picture.

    And so I think the club is in a good place with solid, long-term thinking behind it. It will improve over time no matter the bumps in the road. But yes, losing four on the bounce stings a bit.

    Who knows what the future holds? I find that exciting, the unknown.

    Let’s hope you don’t stop supporting the club. That would be a poor decision from someone so vocal about it. You clearly care. We all do. Including the owner who has made more good than bad decisions, giving fans some joyous moments in their years supporting our great club.

    Good post though. Can’t beat a bit of Sunday mass-debating.
     
  12. Plankton Pete

    Plankton Pete Well-Known Member

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    I think you're entitled to your opinion, you voice it eloquently and I know that all you want is for Barnsley to have success (within certain parameters I guess). I don't fully agree with you, but I think you make some valid points. My major disagreement with you is with regards to the take over. In general I have bought into 'the plan', but I think that the plan should not be stuck to rigidly to the detriment of our league status. The idea of buying young rough diamonds and selling them on after a couple of seasons is sound, as long as we have the right scouting model in place, But to not try and keep one or two of these diamonds post-polishing is folly. I'm reasonably sure that keeping Roberts and Scowen at the expense of one or more of our new signings would (a) have improved the balance of our team and (b) would not have had a significant impact on our finances.

    I've bought into the plan, but believe we have to have the courage to tweak the plan periodically.

    I'm not convinced that 'the plan' will change in the short term under new owners. I think 'the plan' is one of the things that makes us an attractive investment proposition. Buying low and selling high will lead to a profit regardless of the league one is in. The league simply dictates the magnitude of the outlay of the player we buy.
     
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  13. Tarntyke

    Tarntyke Well-Known Member

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    The’plan’ as you call it did actually work as proved when it brought us from the abyss of League 1 to winning 2 Wembley finals and promotion. It gave us a fantastic Half a season last season. I agree the strategy needs to be re-visited, tweaked, amended, call it what you will, but it shouldn’t be totally abandoned. BFC will always have to sell their better players that always has happened and always will. IMHO it’s the size of the rebuild that’s the problem. To dismiss it totally and accuse PC as making a ‘pigs ear of it’ is not only very harsh but inaccurate. No I haven’t got my head buried in the sand just saying it as I see it. We are struggling at the moment but as a fan I am always hopeful that we’ll turn it around and I am as fed up as the next fan when we lose. Just to cut some of the basic errors out would see an improvement in our fortunes. That’s not PC’s fault. Remember his ‘Dead fish eyes’ comment to a changing room full of experienced and older players a few seasons age?
     
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  14. Dja

    Django Well-Known Member

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    What do you mean by ‘where we are now?’. We aren’t under achieving. Aren’t we about exactly where we should be? Or maybe even a couple of places above where most expected us to be in August?

    On the playing staff we’ve got a young group, with most of them having 2 & a 1/2 years on their contracts & due to how young they are they should be getting better during that time.

    Off the pitch, we’d all like to know more about the takeover but we all know how these things work with confidentiality agreements & much stricter scrutiny from the FA meaning they can take a long time to go through.

    The strategy? I’d like us to keep a couple of players, leaders who care about the club & can give us some much needed experience (e.g. Scowen & Roberts) but that’s not how we operate. All you can say is that up to now it’s been a success. Ultimately success will be judged on whether we stay up or not. If the season finished tomorrow we’ve done brilliantly given how many players we’ve lost & how many we’ve brought in with no experience.

    For me the main way we’ll be competitive is getting 30+ games in these young players & then improving & pushing on next season. I think it’s fantasy land to expect new owners to come in & start throwing cash around. I’d imagine they’ve only tried to take us over because of the strategy in place & our ability to improve players & sell them on for profit. I just can’t see anyone investing in Barnsley & throwing money around unless they’re from the town & had hundreds of millions to waste.
     
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  15. Redstar

    Redstar Well-Known Member

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    The thing that rankles the most is the seeming lack of desire to retain players we could have retained. Now I know you’re obviously much closer to it but surely we’d have been much better retaining Scowen than taking punts on Potts etc? The same goes for Roberts. Bits I hear tell me that this is done because of a fundamental belief in the system.

    No doubts there was absolutely no chance of signing them again but surely one or two gods enough now would be better than 14 who might be.

    You’re right that that plan got us to 14th. It also got us to 7th until it all unravelled. Have we signed or attempted to sign a striker to replace Winnall? I can’t see one.

    4 home wins in 2017.
     
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  16. sta

    stairfoot.red Active Member

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    It's no good conan they won't listen the Cryne's can do no wrong criticism of them is not allowed. PS if you think it's bad now wait a few months until the custodian is a housewife with as far as I know no football or business experience L1 will be a pipe dream I fear without a takeover we will in time lose the club. 20 million even if it is that much won't last long and none of the present squad look like being cash cows like the last. It's not a plan it's a recipe for decline and stagnation at best because of the inept way it is being implemented.
     
  17. Young Nudger

    Young Nudger Well-Known Member

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    Totally agree (except for the Potts comment).
    Ok - we will be forever in his debt for sorting the club out during administration.
    But since Patrick took over we have neither gone forward, backward or sideways.
    In the last 10 years we have been generally stuck around the bottom 6 of the Championship or in League 1.
    Many fans during that time have got out of the habit of going to matches.

    Patrick should have done what he set out to do - sort out administration and then sell.
    Instead we have had 10 years wasted.
     
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  18. fit

    fitzytyke2 Well-Known Member

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    The only thing I'd say about the plan working in league one and giving us some momentum in the Championship, is that league one is less of a step up for some of these lads, and some of them had played together for two full seasons.

    We are now asking a hell of a lot more from young lads that haven't played at this level.

    I don't know what the alternative is though if I'm honest.
     
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  19. only1kp

    only1kp Well-Known Member

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    We are in the championship so Patrick, the plan or a combination of both must have done something right, surely ?

    Granted we might end up back in league 1 so the plan is obviously flawed, but its not the only reason.

    Personally, and i have suggested this before, the strategy actually worked too well and we were caught cold, because there is no way even the most ardent barnsley fan can say they predicted we would get promoted that season. My own opinion is the strategy was based on us not getting promoted until last season or maybe even this.
     
  20. YTBFC

    YTBFC Well-Known Member

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    I’d have Potts all day over Scowen. What is he actually achieving this season, where are QPR? Hecky barely played him in midfield. Had him on the wing or even full back at times. Preferred Morsy/James.

    Potts and others are learning, developing in the Championship. They didn’t get the advantage of a year or two together in L1 losing to Fleetwood, Crawley et al. So maybe, just maybe they will improve as time goes on? Maybe it’s more appropriate to back and support them rather than call them Elephants or whatever? I dunno. Hecky would rather they were supported. So I’ll side with him. But then, I remember us singing “we’re fucking ****” with Scowen, Roberts, Bree, Mawson, Davies, Hourihane, Winnall and Watkins on the pitch. Results are everything to fans, no matter how much reasoned debate there is on here.

    I wish we’d have kept Robbo. We didn’t have to cash in. We could never compete on wages, but we’d have got another year out of him. However, when you get that kind of money offered and you’ve Liam Lindsay in the building, I understand why it happened.

    4 home wins in 2017? Really? Better than Sunderland then. A huge club with money and 40,000 fans. Not won at home for a year or summat.
     

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