There's a decent chance we're going down.

I'm pretty sure that we can all list players bought for lots of money at this club and elsewhere that have turned out to be rubbish. In these inflated transfer fee times I'm not sure £1.5m is good value especially when you consider we got Yiadom on a free.

 

Ok why don't Chelsea sign players for nothing if it's pointless paying money for them or Man U or Derby or Middlesborough, Brentford or even Leeds. I can name thousands of gambles that fail. You get what you pay for in all walks of life. If you want to move forward in any business you need to reinvest profits otherwise you will go backwards eventually.

 

With or without Yiadom, there's a "decent chance we're going down". It's based on operating with a budget that is clearly amongst the lowest in the division. It's also why we were installed as one of the favourites to be relegated, as usual.

It's exactly the same situation as we started last season in, and for that matter, all those in our previous spell in the Championship before that.

Personally, I'll opt not to view that as certain relegation as a few on here seem to be doing. It's the same challenge we face every season, and we've started plenty of them in worse shape overall than this one.

As for Yiadom, I didn't expect him to last the transfer window as we'd clearly recruited his likely replacement a while ago. I'm disappointed with how he's gone about things, which is reminiscent of Winnall, but it's how the majority of footballers appear to behave these days, so not entirely a surprise. In Hecky's shoes, I'd be struggling to select him if he's going to shirk from challenges and not put in a full shift, and he's arguably a bigger detriment to us operating in the team than away from it now that he's made things clear (both from his interviews, and his performances on the pitch).

 

The problem with that is no player 'wants to be here'. They just see us as a stepping stone to better things. In fairness to them that is how we are portraying ourselves so we can't really bitch about it.

 

So when we signed Yiadom from league 2 Barnet was that moving backwards?

Hourihane, mawson, roberts, Winnall, Yiadom, macDonald were all signed from league two or non- league sides (scunny had been promoted with Winnall but he left in the summer before playing in league one for them, he'd only played league two for them). Were we moving backwards then?

We went bottom of league one at the end of November 2015 after a draw at home to sheff Utd. That team had davo, mawson, hammill, isgrove, Hourihane, Watkins and Winnall in it. Bree and Roberts couldn't get in the team and were on the bench. Bottom of division three. At that point we would have been delighted if someone told us we'd be in league one the following season. As it was we weren't - it was little short of a miracle when you look back.

Fourteen months later the club was castigated and that continues another six months on for not keeping all these players.

The rise from that point should have gone down as the stuff of makebelieve but typically for barnsley it was the same season Leicester decided anyone can win the league. Any other year we would have been the story of the season.

The fact that we went under the radar probably helped. But the football world noticed - and signed some of the players. They were still the same players who were capable of being bottom of division three though.

So signing more similar statured players is not moving backwards. They were all only good championship players because Barnsley made them that.

 

But it's not the same situation. We had a strong experienced spine of a team. We have sold off an entire team in the last 12 months not because we wanted to move forwards but because we wanted to. This is a crisis of our own making.

It's rich to say that a player shouldn't use us as a stepping stone when that is the signal we give out to other teams.

 

We were in a lower division signing those players. They had 18 months playing in that lower division flirting with relegation before it clicked. Relatively for the division we were in when we signed Winnall and Hourihane we spent big. One of the biggest spends in the division that close season as I remember. It wasn't a miracle we abandoned our plan and spent big n Hammill and on more expensive loan players. Look at the scorers in the play off final to illustrate the point.

When we attempted to replicate this last season in a higher division with one of the lowest spends with a strong talented experienced spine of a team already in place it mainly failed. Last seasons signings only 2 could be classed as successes thus far. This season we need every single signing to be a success. Very naive to think the situation is the same.

 

This is the thing people just won't grasp.

 

We sold them because we were faced with the choice of sell now or get nothing in 6 months. And a club like ours can't gamble tens of millions of pounds on promotion to the premier when we werent in the top 2 or even 6. And that's taking for granted the players wanting to stay after their heads have been turned.

 

I'm not naive, I'm just not unrealistic. The situation isn't the same but the club in a lot of ways is. Hammill aside (it's clear he was the catalyst for improvement imo), who are the expensive loan signings? Man Utd paid fletcher's wages and isgrove was already here.

Partly why I don't criticise them for all the midfield players signed this summer is the knowledge of the likely success rate of signing such players. They won't all work so he needs more than one or two.

My point was, having progressed as quickly on the field as we did, how exactly do you think it should have been sustained?

When stupidly rich clubs come in offering twenty or thirty grand a week to your players, how are we going to get them to stay? You can only make them stay whilst they're contracted and even then it's sometimes cutting off your nose to spite your face. Once the interest is there, it's a matter of time.

Then it's whether you cash in. Or make them stay, then let them go for free in the summer anyway. They did both of those things.

Because we were in the lower leagues when they signed, the players were on one and two year contracts. This has been criticised since - but it's a bit short sighted to say a side towards the bottom of league one should have been giving out three and four year deals to unproven players.

Having had that criticism, this year they are now handing out three year deals - yet I guarantee that if we go down and have players that have two years left and haven't worked out they will be criticised more by some.

It doesn't matter what the club do. They can't win. Had they held on to all the players - and they all left anyway this summer, for the square root of **** all, we'd have unanimously gone mad. People say we'd have made the playoffs as though it was a given. It wasn't even likely. In fact I'd wager we wouldn't have - maybe stayed top half. So we had the choice to make.

We cannot (and I'm glad we don't) match the daft wages that Villa, Wednesday, Birmingham, Norwich and even qpr are paying our former players. It's unsustainable.

Alternatively they could have sold all the lot including Watkins and scowen in January. Maybe Roberts too. We'd have probably just about stayed up, it's not like we got that many points after January. Some on here would have spontaneously combusted if we did.

So what do they do? This summer they've sold two first team players assuming Yiadom is sold. Two. They had no choice when it comes to Yiadom really. Roberts says he wanted to stay -but you'd think only if we got at least close to matching the wage offer. Not sure what brum have given him but I suspect it will cover the wages of our whole back four. And Davo.

So what would you have them do? We can't and won't pay the wages of established championship players - as one we can't afford it, and two they aren't necessarily likely to be any better bets long term.

In fact it could just as easily be argued that it is naive to suggest we should have kept the players.

 

We could go down or we could also do really well this year. That's the beauty of the championship. We've bought some quality lower league players/from Scotland. Let's give them a few games to see if they can gel and make the step up. If they do, it will be a great footing with the next few years

 

Spot on.

Plus, with Roberts, he's also signed a 5 year contract on whatever wage he's being paid at Brum. Not a chance we could compete with that.

 

Complete tosh... You're basing that on 1 league match and 1 cup match which we did win..How negative can you possible get to even say at this point that we've accepted we are going down...Err no we haven't and I suspect the vast majority of people haven't either..

 

The club set the tone. Selling off hourihane, winnall and Roberts. Yiadom is probably thinking why am i being forced to stay. From his point of view he sees a club losing all its best players and heading for league 1.

 

Its always going to be the case unless we somehow gatecrash the obscene party.

Why would anyone want to join Barnsley? The towns a dump, the region is in decline, the crowds are modest in comparison and if they read this bbs, sweet jesus, they wouldn't touch us with a barge pole seeing so much bitterness and infighting.

The reason players join us is because at the time, we are attractive to them. We'll retain players who nobody wants with ease. Those that are so-so, we have a good chance of retaining, those with hunger and ambition that prove they can cut it will be looking to move. Once players feel (or their agenst tell them) they have suitors willing to pay £15k plus... what do you do?

That's the issue we have. Let a player rot does us no favours other than a bit of an instant revenge for someone seeking a move. Letting a player go, weakens the team to start with, but nets a transfer fee. Keeping them to honour a contract, we get some performances, though are they diminished, in the short term, and after that we get nothing.

Its that balance that's so difficult to do. £3m or nothing. Could be injured, may sulk, may be a bad influence. I can understand why it happens. Hell, if I were in charge, I can see it being the choice i'd make.

But it's crap being a fan and seeing it. We've had 18 months of joy, reality bites hard.

 

I'm relative ok with being a yo yo L1 side. We should market ourselves to fans on that basis. That occasionally we may get promoted but in all likelihood will get relegated pretty quickly and that all players are available for transfer at any time regardless of league position.

 

One minute it's the same the next it's different I can't keep up...

As I understand it outlay on loan players was 'significant' and wages for players like Brownhill were not covered. We were spending money that few other clubs could at that level.

Just a quick question if the task for the club is so impossible how do the other 23 clubs in the division seemingly manage it?

To be clear I have little problem with selling any player as long as Money received is reinvested on incoming transfers or ground improvements. As long as the club and team are demonstrably moving forwards. I think there is little room in the uk market and that we should like Brentford have on a similar budget recruit abroad.

No point pretending everything is hunky dory when it's not. The last 8 months have been shambolic. The ground is run down and ramshackle. If I were Yiadom or any other player I would want to leave. The team has been dismantled around them. We have conducted a fire sale. Other fans see us as a joke and they are not far wrong.

I hope we do well. I hope we can defeat the odds. If we do it will be in spite of the club not because of it.