Theresa ‘Gollum’ May

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board' started by BarnsleyReds, Dec 10, 2018.

  1. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    There’s these things they are called elections. You vote for an MEP in exactly the same way as you vote for an MP. In fact given that you do so using PR they offer you a greater say. Your MEP has a vote ( not if you vote UKIP because they don’t show up) in the European Parliament. Happy to help you there.

    The U.K. has supported or initiated 97% of EU legislation since 1973.

    What specific EU legislation has an adverse impact on the U.K. What specific not general changes would you like to make?
     
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  2. Dan

    DannyWilsonLovechild Well-Known Member

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    I'm currently in Copenhagen, amazed at what's going on and the sound bites which if people really think about it make no sense.

    The leave commentators, apart from wetherspoons owner and Kate hoey are all plummy voiced elites. Or, aus or us neocons. It's a superb piece of eye pulling down down politics that the exact audience they don't represent feel they are safe in their hands.

    If anyone has an inkling of thought that we have vestiges of a great empire, good god. We're beyond incompetent and just looking at other countries it shows you how wrong and how backward and deluded we are.

    And you know the real worry... The EU isn't responsible for the vast majority of ills many accuse them of.

    The issue is us. Our choices. Our lifestyles. Our gullibility, our laziness, our lack of depth, our impatience, our desire for cheapness and throwaway.

    We tolerate woeful politicians and need sugar coated cosmetic tick box depth lacking leaders. We care more about how they look than what they believe. We want cheap goods more than we want a lasting one and as such globalisation and our govt decisions have the biggest impacts on our daily lives and futures.

    I understand many people don't see that, but do one thing for me if this is you. Stop. Ask yourself where these views stem from, where they first manifest and how true they are.

    If nothing else, this whole sorry affair should lead us all to question our views and if where we place our faith and security is actually the right place.
     
  3. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    Yes I agree with you there to an extent. It’s not quite right to say that the EU supports nationalisation though and it clearly wants to open up all sectors for competition. You are 100 percent correct about successive U.K. Govts blaming the EU for their **** ups.
     
  4. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    You may have a point just as those who say that Rees Mogg and Farage want out to avoid the clampdown on tax avoidance do.
     
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  5. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    No I don’t think the EU supports nationalisation but they don’t punish govts for doing it .
    Govts utilities can play a part in the market as EDF etc .
    People knew more about Farages rare trips to Brussels to play his buffoonery than any of the other hard working meps who were working on our behalf and that’s the media to blame for that .
    In the name of true democracy a referendum should be called now that the real facts and repercussions are in the open but they are frightened to death imo because they know millions have changed their minds and know they can’t win a real debate which the first one certainly wasnt
     
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  6. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    I’m not a massive fan of referendums. I’d prefer a General Election and then politicians making the hard decisions we pay em to. As a minim a GE before any kind of 2nd vote.
     
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  7. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    Yeah I know what you mean but imo. a general election won’t solve anything on this case .
    The country is split and it carries on in parliament with mps .
    The Tories opened Pandora’s box and anything was game for both sides to prove their points even the hard fought peace in Northern Ireland which is disgraceful especially for the people who lived it and we that witnessed it.
    The Tories were in govt for years whilst my community were torn and dragged and left to rot .Blair came with plasters for gaping wounds then the Tories again .
    Only the EU insisted monies to be spent on our infrastructure with Ciswo etc.
    I would trust the EU to invest in my community than any of the British political parties and I’m a member of one.
     
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  8. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    My view is a 2nd vote will do nothing to solve the problems that caused Brexit. It won’t stop austerity. It won’t give people job security or housing security. It won’t reach out to the left behind communities. Only a left leaning govt committed to real structural change in society can do that.
     
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  9. David_Upper_East

    David_Upper_East Well-Known Member

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    I don't think so. I reckon it would be about the same. I would change my vote - I voted Remain. Say what you like about Theresa May - and politicians are easy targets in our country - in other places you would be arrested, tortured and shot, she has shown herself impervious to the criticism all around her - she has not responded in kind, and she has kept her calm. It would have been much easier to resign and give someone else a go. What was the referendum about? Partly it was about immigration; partly about real or perceived EU bureaucracy; but here in Barnsley it was a protest vote about the decline of the town and the economic growth of London, and the sense of powerlessness. The fly in the ointment is Northern Ireland. Most people here don't give a toss about them of course, and even die-hard Unionist friends of mine in the North are thinking that a united Ireland might not be a bad idea. The United Kingdom is on course for splitting up.
     
  10. Marlon

    Marlon Well-Known Member

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    I’m not so sure unless it’s with a Blair type majority.
    Most countries as well as their own opposition seem to turn on any left leaning govts and with the aid of the media turn populist and nationalist party’s seem a better alternative.
    Greece is one country which the left abandoned its stance as well as Spain which is turning to Gibraltar to appease the right wing because of the hostility from the above bodies.
     
  11. sadbrewer

    sadbrewer Well-Known Member

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    Wrong on a couple of points there Jimmy...according to David Cameron during the referendum campaign, after first having denied there were plans for The EU Army, he said under questioning that we had an opt out on participation...not a full veto.

    As to Turkey they were in line for membership ( I personally don't have a view on the rights or wrongs) until Erdogan's coup....in fact George Osborne was hideously embarrassed by Andrew Neil ,when he was asked "why, if Turkey are not going to join the EU has the UK Government given them £100m to speed up Turkish accession?
     
  12. sadbrewer

    sadbrewer Well-Known Member

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    Interesting article from the Daily Mirror

    https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/four-union-leaders-argue-brexit-8126878
     
  13. sadbrewer

    sadbrewer Well-Known Member

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    Mick Cash and the RMT don't seem to agree with that conclusion, according to this article from the Morning Star.


    Mr Cash, whose union represents transport staff, seafarers and oil workers, said: “We need to understand those in the Westminster bubble are calling for a people’s vote for the sole reason of a second referendum on the EU. They are your Chuka Umunnas, your Chris Leslies, your Peter Mandelsons your Tony Blairs, the Lib Dems.”

    He said these politicians “want us in the EU so that the EU can stop Jeremy Corbyn’s plans for nationalisation and for state aid and for workers’ rights.”

    He stormed: “We, the trade union movement, will be lining up with people who are seeking to force the hand of Jeremy Corbyn and with people who want to attack the socialist leadership of the Labour Party and who want to attack socialist policies.”


     
  14. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    Mick cash is wrong and no expert on Eu law. The U.K. in recent living memory has nationalised the east coast Mainline and rbs. No part of the last labour manifesto could not be implemented under Eu law.

    http://theconversation.com/fact-che...it-impossible-to-renationalise-railways-61180
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
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  15. Jimmy viz

    Jimmy viz Well-Known Member

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    A veto is a veto and we are not the only country with one. You trust the word of cameron.

    https://fullfact.org/europe/hunt-eu-army/

    The Turkey thing in terms of full membership was a lie to pander to racists. Farage has admitted such. Again we have a veto and can stop anything we don’t like.

    http://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/unfounded-claim-turkey-swing-brexit-referendum/

    I just wish people would stop the hyperbole and lies and have a genuine discussion about the merits and demerits of being in the EU but that seems virtually impossible. As someone who is almost agnostic on it the lies in both sides of the debate make any real decision making impossible.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2018
  16. dek

    dekparker Well-Known Member

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    yes,the french lay the blame for austerity with the EU,they see the union as spending their taxes to help prop up weaker economies,when in their opinion that money should be spent in france
     
  17. Old

    Old Gimmer Well-Known Member

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    Is that all French people?!!
     
  18. BarnsleyReds

    BarnsleyReds Well-Known Member

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    I know quite a few French people and none have expressed any views even close to this. Do you have a source?
     
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  19. dek

    dekparker Well-Known Member

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    probably not,same as not all british are disgruntled with the eu
     
  20. dek

    dekparker Well-Known Member

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    apart from going to france every year and seeing the place littered with 'FREXIT' posters and cars carrying stickers with the same message,theres plenty of stuff online

    https://www.express.co.uk/news/worl...st-yellow-vests-Emmanuel-Macron-Frexit-latest


    the following is copied from forbes.com


    The gilets jaunes—the “yellow vests,” so named for the safety jackets they wear to public protests—have effectively transformed a single-issue protest into the French #resistance with a long list of objections against Macron and European neoliberalism.
     

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