Theresa ‘Gollum’ May

Whose this Bob that everybody’s fedup wi? If there there’s another referendum I’m going to vote for him out of sympathy

 

yes,most of the tories,

185 voted remain,138 voted leave,thats a majority who voted leave.

 

And 200 Labour MPs voted remain and only 10 to leave. There's no escaping that Brexit has been driven by the fracture in the Tories and messed up by the Tories.

If Stahlrost's post is not the clearest argument that we need to reconsider this whole issue I don't know what is.

Still don't understand how having a new vote is undemocratic. If people still want Brexit, we'll get Brexit

 

Read the whole article Jimmy....it clearly says
" The only thing that the new system will almost certainly rule out is state monopolies that do not have to compete with rivals to win franchises, renationalised or otherwise."
That is exactly what Mick Cash ( and I suspect ) Jeremy Corbyn want to do (hopefully)

The reviewer says "But where the author states that the regulation does not require member states to privatise any aspect of their rail network, my reading of the fourth rail package is that it categorically seeks to dismantle incumbent state monopolies in other EU countries. This rules out reinstating mainland Britain’s old state monopoly, British Rail. While public sector organisations will still be able to run rail services, any service or route will need to be contracted out and not simply awarded

 

a majority of mp's from all sides voted remain however this did not reflect the public who voted leave.

the following two years(imo) have been specifically engineered to promote a second vote,the eu dont want us out and neither do most of our establishment and between them they are making brexit look as unattractive as is possible in the hope that the majority leave vote will be overturned

had this vote gone the other way and the arguments for a second referendum were coming from leave it is not hard to figure what the remain side would be saying #undemocratic.

 

The past two years have been trying to achieve the unachievable. There was never going to be a deal or form of Brexit that was broadly acceptable even to people who voted Brexit (because as you rightly point out people voted for lots if different reasons) let alone those who voted remain or those who didn't vote.

We now have clarity on what Brexit means. It either means no deal, remain, or what is on the table. Could we have got a better deal? I think so but that would involve being in the customs union or single market which would be completely unacceptable to many others, including I would guess you?

So the only real option is no deal. Would a majority vote for no deal? I don't think they would but the point us none of us know because no matter what people say the debate at the last referendum was not between no deal and remain.

 

It doesn’t stop anyone nationalising anything. It cannot be clearer. It was mick’s view that EU legislation prevents it. This was fact checked and debunked it clearly doesn’t. Labours own legal advice confirmed there was nothing in EU law to prevent them enacting the whole of their 2017 manifesto. There are many reasons to query ongoing membership of the EU. Some are very valid. This isn’t one of them.

 

of course a deal is achievable its just that the eu have no intentions of striking a deal that isnt virtually on their terms,brexit means brexit,if the eu are adamant they wont budge then lets leave with no deal because i dont think it would be long before some economies and industry (particularly the germans) would be telling junker,tusk and barnier et al, that their stance is unacceptable,we are a huge part of germanys export market,they are the biggest influence in the eu,they will not want to lose us.

we had clarity before on what brexit means,the remain side thrashed it out and rammed it down everyone's neck,the government even sent us all a leaflet highlighting why we should remain,nothing has changed

 

But even in your post as someone who wants Brexit you're arguing a deal is still possible. Which is my point, that no one has ever been asked to engage on the reality of no deal Brexit

 

There’s no proof we would get everything we want because they want to trade with us because we are they’re biggest market,
The EU have just done a massive deal with US and the deal favoured the EU more than the US by vetoing their food standards and Tarrifs among many other things .
If the EU can veto one of the biggest economies in the world as well as Canada China India etc to suggest they would drop their principles to bargain with us is just nonsense imo .
The no dealers are trying to lead us over a cliff edge with nonsense no deal rhetoric it’s like charge of the light Brigade policies imo

 

I spoilt my ballot but i

But the reply to that piece is interesting. It's not black and white, that's for sure. I did read some time ago that some EU countries had been taken to court for not following EU transport directives re: trains - but I cant find the article....

 

The ridiculous part of the railways is that Chinese, German and Dutch state rail companies are being given taxpayers money to run our railways lines and make profit that goes back to their state coffers.

 

The reviewer of the post you quoted obviously disagrees, whether that view is mistaken and also needs to be debunked I cannot say but to repeat Dr. Badstuber's comment...

" my reading of the fourth rail package is that it categorically seeks to dismantle incumbent state monopolies in other EU countries. This rules out reinstating mainland Britain’s old state monopoly, British Rail. While public sector organisations will still be able to run rail services, any service or route will need to be contracted out and not simply awarded"
Dr Badstuber finishes the review by saying...
" I would therefore suggest there is a valid case for Mick Cash to say that the package promotes dismantling state rail services and paves the way for privatising operations."

 

Sure its a Thatchers fault.....

 

Without getting into a massive re-run of the debate we had in 2016, one point, as this thread has mentioned a bit as to whether being in the EU would clip Corbyn's wings in any way. The democratically elected Government of Italy recently passed an anti-austerity budget (Which I think is what Corbyn wants to do). The EU and the ECB have told them to go away and re-think it or face sanctions. I read the book by Yanis Varoufakis (Greek Finance minister in the midst of their austerity) about what he thinks of the EU and the control it exerted over Greece. Whilst Italy and Greece are two extreme examples the principle is there: If the EU don't like your budget you're not doing it
BTW. His book (Adults in the Room £15 Guardian bookshop) speaks of an EU tactic called the "penelope ruse" where they use a running down clock to defeat upstarts. Juncker and Barnier's ticking clock?

 

Despite spending almost 6 months a year for the past 14 years living in the heart of rural France I can only recall seeing a grand total of one Frexit poster and one Frexit car sticker. Perhaps I should get out more, or pay more attention when I do.

 

i spent five weeks there this summer,covering 2500 miles and saw frexit posters in practically every village we passed through,i'm unsure how i'd be aware of them otherwise,similarly the same with the car stickers.

 

As I say, maybe I should pay more attention. I've not spoken to a single French person who wants France out of the EU either. They, like the Belgians, Dutch and Germans I mix with, are just aghast about what we the British are doing. I'm sure they exist, I just don't seem to encounter them which is bizarre given what I read about how prevalent they are. It's like I'm living in a parallel universe.

 

i'm arguing its possible because i am of the opinion that if our government had the will and guts to say 'you can stuff this present deal we will leave without one' then junker and co would have no option but to broker a deal that would be beneficial to both parties.

the reprucussions of a no deal were thrashed out and the governments own propaganda made it quite clear what laid in store should a no deal scenario happen,people imo were well aware what they voted for.

BTW had the common market remained just that then we would not be having this conversation,but after denying it was ever going to happen we have had a political union forced upon us by stealth,during the run up to the 1975 referendum many politicians on all sides of the house were called scaremongers for suggesting a political union was in the pipeline, that even such a thing could even be considered was shouted down as ridiculous and outright lies....Well answer me this ,which party was lying,was it our politicians and union men who were against staying in or was it the then top brass in government and the eu?

 

must be different people in different circles because even macron thinks the french would quit the eu if offered a referendum

https://news.sky.com/story/emmanuel-macron-french-would-probably-vote-to-leave-eu-11216872