A question for those clamouring for Prem/Champ quality players..

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board ARCHIVE' started by Whitey, Apr 26, 2012.

  1. Whi

    Whitey Guest

    Luke Steele
    David Button
    Bobby Hassell
    Jay Maccavelli
    Stephen Foster
    Rob Edwards
    Nathan Doyle
    Michael Tonge
    Korey Smith
    David Cotterill
    Andy Gray
    Frank Nouble
    Jacob Butterfield
    *all of the above are contracted to us in some form or another
    .
    Miles Addison
    Cameron Park
    Danny Drinkwater
    Nile Ranger
    Danny Haynes
    Ricardo Vaz Te
    *all the above were here in some form or another this season
    .
    The first question - are/were these Prem/Champ quality players? They have all spent the majority of their careers in one or both of those divisions, so that IMO makes them experienced at those levels.
    There are 19 players in total there, so where has this myth (IMO) come from that we have no quality players for this level, and that we have a squad full of lower leaguers who are not good enough for this division?
    .
    From that 19, I can only put forward 5, maybe 6 that I would say have done okay or better when playing this season.
    Butterfield
    Steele
    Vaz Te
    Drinkwater
    Hassell
    Gray
    .
    You could even argue that Gray and Hassell have had poor to average campaigns, depending upon your opinion on them. So that leaves 4 of our 'Prem/Champ' players this season (from 19) that we would all agree have had great seasons. And as we know, only 2 of those remain, and 1 of them is definitely leaving soon, leaving just our keeper and POTY, who will have his admirers this summer.
    .
    So, why are people so keen to see Keith and co recruit more of these types of player? Our/his success rate is quite poor when recruiting players of that ilk. Answers on a postcard as to why that is...
    .
    Scott Wiseman
    Jimmy McNulty
    Lee Collins
    Scott Golbourne
    Jim O'Brien
    Matty Done
    David Perkins
    Stephen Dawson
    Paul Digby
    Reuben Noble-Lazarus
    Chris Dagnall
    Craig Davies
    Kallum Higginbotham
    Danny Rose
    *all the above are players contracted to us in one way or another
    .
    This list of 14 players contains those who I would term lower league, or inexperienced at this level. Yes, O'Brien, Dagnall, Davies and McNulty have had a season (roughly) at this level before, but they are hardly hardened pro's in the division.
    Of that 14, Id say that 5 of them have had decent or better, campaigns. Davies, McNulty, O'Brien, Perkins and Done. I also think that Collins, Dawson, RNL, Rose and Digby have looked decent at times, in their limited appearances.
    .
    So, for me at least, our inexperienced players have had a better impact, on a cheaper level. The success rate from that bunch is far better than the 19 'proven' players... and, if I want to get fussy, I could argue that Drinkwater, Butterfield AND Vaz Te were actually inexperienced at this level. Certainly, in comparison to the likes of Doyle, Maccavelli and Cotterill.
    .
    So my key question I suppose is - what are Prem/Champ quality players? And why all of a sudden is Keith even suggesting we need some?
    .
    IMO, we need 'quality' players, period. What division they play in is irrelevant...
    Thoughts??
     
  2. Googs

    Googs Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 19, 2005
    Messages:
    8,480
    Likes Received:
    384
    Trophy Points:
    83
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Wilthorpe
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Excellent post mate!
     
  3. JDB

    JDB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2011
    Messages:
    573
    Likes Received:
    271
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    I fully agree with this Whitey. Excellent post.

    I'd suggest that Keith has recognised the need for SOME experienced heads, but he also needs to keep finding rough diamonds. It wouldn't surprise me to see Matt Done, Scott Wiseman, Scott Golbourne and Jim McNulty have excellent seasons next year. They now know what to expect and how they have to play in the Championship. A full pre-season with a few more experienced players will do them a world of good.
     
  4. bfc

    bfcbub Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 17, 2005
    Messages:
    2,480
    Likes Received:
    5
    Trophy Points:
    38
    Location:
    The People's Republic of Barnsley
    Home Page:
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Good post however I wouldn't trust Keith Hill to buy me a quality banana in a banana shop. He would find me a half price banana that once looked like it might grow into a good banana only to start turning brown and now finds itself discarded to the 'everything must go' banana shop around the corner.
     
  5. Hem

    Hemsworth Tyke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2008
    Messages:
    15,755
    Likes Received:
    196
    Trophy Points:
    63
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    #5 Hemsworth Tyke, Apr 26, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2012
    From reading what’s been put Whtey we haven't had many experienced players on the pitch at the same time.
    When the things are going good then the players from the lower league will be good, they had come from mostly teams that had won a lot last season and a lot of confidence. Didn't Rochdale finish 8th, Perkins won the POTY, PPOTY and Colchester finish around 12?

    When the confidence bubble was *****ed and it was in a big way these players didn't know how to grind out wins.
    Cotterill, Tonge Just haven't been fit enough, Smith isn't the most experienced and really only knows success before moving on loan and Buttons not played that many game at this level.
    IF we could have got, Steele, Foster edwards, Tonge, gray through that centre then we could have built round them.
    Another problem for me, LEADERS, we haven’t got any. From what I’ve seen PAUL DIGBYs more of a leader than 25/26/27 year old. Against Birmingham at 2-1 heads went, but not the 17 year old centre midfielder. It's not that they don't care but it's not natural to most.

    IMO, we need 'quality' players, period. What division they play in is irrelevant... Agree whitey

    Agree or don't agree, it's just my opinion
     
  6. chester

    chester New Member

    Joined:
    Jan 8, 2009
    Messages:
    1,522
    Likes Received:
    0
    Trophy Points:
    0
    Occupation:
    Gas Engineer
    Location:
    Reight art in the front
    Home Page:
    I agree, but, quality comes with a price. there are decent players around with Prem experience, but if they cant get into a lower prem team why would we want them? they just want a wage (see Diouf at pikeys)
    Yes we need quality but we cant afford prem wages and that my friends is a fact!!
    if I was the owner i wouldnt pump loads of cash in at the moment cos the crowds cannot support the wage bill.
     
  7. dreamboy3000

    dreamboy3000 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2005
    Messages:
    60,046
    Likes Received:
    26,550
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    DB3K Towers
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    While we have a lot of championship players, we don't have much championship quality and that's what Hill said he's after this summer.
     
  8. Archey

    Archey Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2008
    Messages:
    26,531
    Likes Received:
    22,485
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Parts unknown
    Style:
    Barnsley
    But isn't that the point of Whitey's post, why do quality players have to have premiership, or even championship experience.

    Take Dawson for example, not seen much of him, but early glimpses shows he'll be a teriffic leader, he likes to get forward with the ball, and in the 2nd half at Hull, showed he can make things happen and change a game. He's got no experience at this or any higher level, yet he cost us next to nothing compared to what, say, Michael Tonge might cost us.

    There are many players in the 3rd and 4th tier with the potential to make the step up, and with the minoscule budget we have, we ought to be taking a few gambles.
     
  9. dreamboy3000

    dreamboy3000 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2005
    Messages:
    60,046
    Likes Received:
    26,550
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    DB3K Towers
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    We have taken a few gambles. Have you not seen the amount of players we've brought in this season? It's time now to bring in some proven championship quality for the lower league inexperienced players to learn from.
     
  10. Fly

    FlyingHour Member

    Joined:
    Aug 10, 2011
    Messages:
    814
    Likes Received:
    9
    Trophy Points:
    18
    #10 FlyingHour, Apr 26, 2012
    Last edited: Apr 26, 2012
    Agree.

    What is equally concerning is that the manager didn't know how to deal with the losing streak either. He began chopping and changing the line-up - when in reality he needed to stick with a settled team and get them properly organised from back to front.
     
  11. Redstar

    Redstar Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2005
    Messages:
    26,953
    Likes Received:
    2,050
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Location:
    Fidel's Bedside
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    Spot On. He kept saying we are looking at "permutations" but all this was was what you said. i know sometimes we could not have a settled side due to injury but we should have varied the style at the very least.
     
  12. dek

    dekparker Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2011
    Messages:
    4,721
    Likes Received:
    728
    Trophy Points:
    113
    Occupation:
    HGV Driver
    Location:
    dosco 3's
    Style:
    Barnsley (full width)
    re archey......i think whoever we get archy they will be a gamble,same as everyone they've got since last summer has been a gamble...its up to the manager to show his ability (and the scouts) in finding players and getting them to perform,i'm sure more or less all the players hill has brought in were perfoming at their previous clubs,otherwise he wouldnt have got them,surely?,so why arnt they performing at this level,yes there have been isolated bits where they've done ok,but otherwise they've been poor,the ball is in hills court to get this lot competeing at this level.any new recruits he brings in,no matter where they are from must perform,otherwise keefy will be out of a job.
     

Share This Page