When did music become something that people expect to have but don't want to pay for?

Discussion in 'Bulletin Board ARCHIVE' started by Plankton Pete, Sep 13, 2012.

  1. Plankton Pete

    Plankton Pete Well-Known Member

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    In the (excellent) thread about ways to enhance the match day experience, it was suggested that bands should play before the match and a couple of posters (and this seems to be a popular opinion in other circles) implied that the bands should play for free. Lots of bars have bands playing, open mics, trad sessions etc. but bar owners are loathed to pay performers. The only ones that buck this trend are places that are 'music venues' in the traditional sense i.e. a place where you pay to go in specifically to watch bands. There's a school of thought that bands should play for free as they can sell CDs to earn money and the live show acts as an advert. This would potentially work if people actually paid for music these days!

    The 'not paying for music' problem goes deeper than this as I know loads of people who have ipods/mp3 players with hundreds of albums on there all illegally downloaded or copied. There seems a general acceptance that this is ok. If everybody stopped paying for music then pretty soon there would be much less music and as a direct result less good music. If you can't make a living out of doing music, where's the incentive for people to bust a gut improving their songwriting and performing skills?

    So the questions I ask are, should some/all music be free?
    Should we expect bands play in venues for free?
     
  2. pompey_red

    pompey_red Well-Known Member

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    Re: When did music become something that people expect to have but don't want to pay

    home taping is killing music! .....and it never actually did i don't think, neither will home downloading, but onto the point, many of the ipod generation may never have set foot in a record store so they see music as a commodity that can be passed freely via email, downloads illegal and legal and shared, they neve have the buzz of holding a record and realising its value, sometimes i would buy a record and the cover turned out to better than the record, not a problem because that was part of the experienceo of owning it

    i find it shocking that both my local HMV's have put the music upstairs and brough games etc to the fore, this probabaly tells you everything about their own marketing focus but then they cry they dont sell enough records. i saw a stat the other day that 20 years ago there was over 3000 local independant records shops, today there is less than 500

    for me downloads and social media etc are a great way of an introduction to a band , listen to songs on soundcloud , follow a link on twitter, have a listen to music that has been recorded and released the same day, then buy the record! some dont see it that way and i dont really know how you can educate them, google and torrent sites make it easy, i know there is plan in place to wipe them from google searches etc, and allow legal sites to be shown higher up the search list... will this work? i dont really think so as the shutting down of pirate bay proved the other month , within minutes a mirror had been established and 30 secs on the net and you were back on pirate bay.

    live music is where some bands see the future income stream being unaffected, no record lables to pay a % to , no one able to see the gig for free, the killers announced an arena tour last week for december.... £50 a ticket!! get real..... id rather not bother at that price,

    what do up and coming bands do ? the "pay to play" culture is dying out at last so they need to earn money , playing for free on the off chance you'd sell a couple of cd's isnt going to work long term, it might once but a fair fee for a fair gig shouldnt be too much trouble for anyone..
     
  3. Con

    Conan Troutman Well-Known Member

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    Re: When did music become something that people expect to have but don't want to pay

    Should music be free? If a label or artist wants to offer free songs either through itunes or on the cover of the magazine as a method of promotion that's fine. If a fan/consumer wants a particular song or a full album then they should have to pay for it as far as I'm concerned. Illegal downloading is no different to walking into HMV and walking out with a CD under your jacket.

    People will say that CDs are too expensive (they're not), that record companies make a fortune (possibly true) and that artists make a fortune (a very small minority do). None of this is a justification for obtaining music for free. I do like some bigger artists who will be multi millionaires such as Metallica but I also like bands who make extreme music and can never hope to sell more than 100,000 copies worldwide and probably still have day jobs. These are the artists who really suffer when people illegally download.

    Regarding live music, if someone wants to perform for free as part of a showcase then that's fine otherwise they should be paid. If someone is going to a venue to specifically see a band then without a doubt they should pay.
     
  4. Ipp

    Ippon Member

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    Re: When did music become something that people expect to have but don't want to pay

    I'm more than happy to pay my £1 for a mint 1st press mono vinyl copy of the Beatles SGT Peppers ..... complete with insets ..... in my local charity shop !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
     
  5. Sup

    Super Ronnie G New Member

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    Re: When did music become something that people expect to have but don't want to pay

    Hi Being older than most I remember seeing images of "stoned" hippies tearing down the fences at the Isle of Wight Music in the late sixities/early seventies demanding that music should be free, so it not just a recent trend agmonst todays younger generation.
     
  6. Anderson15

    Anderson15 Active Member

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    Re: When did music become something that people expect to have but don't want to pay

    illegal downloading is at an all time high, yet Nicki Minaj is getting paid millions.

    i think it'll survive some how...
     
  7. Con

    Conan Troutman Well-Known Member

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    Re: When did music become something that people expect to have but don't want to pay

    She's getting paid for showing her fat arse off in tight clothes.

    What about all the underground artists for whom ever sale counts?
     
  8. Anderson15

    Anderson15 Active Member

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    Re: When did music become something that people expect to have but don't want to pay

    they're getting pirated far less, as their music is less available than said rubbish pop star.

    the real problem is that some artists are getting a sh*t ton of money for being able to use autotune, whilst talented musicians are getting nowt.
     
  9. Googs

    Googs Well-Known Member

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    Re: When did music become something that people expect to have but don't want to pay

    There are a hardcore few bands I will buy the album as soon as it comes out, and if it turns out to be rubbish I just deal with it. But in years gone by I have bought many albums and regretted it. Now I am a homeowner I have to be more realistic on how I spend my money, so if I'm unsure of an album now I will make sure I listen online first. If it turns out good I will buy the CD - on the flipside though if I think it's gash I just never listen again, but save my money.

    The old chestnut of music costing too much money though is ridiculous. I remember in the days of Our Price, Andy's Records etc I was paying £15 for a cd (in the 90's). But now you can quite easily get latest releases for £9 with ease from Amazon among others - even Asda, Tesco etc are very competitive too at times. I personally think musc now is the best value it has ever been (from my memory anyway).
     
  10. Dys

    Dyson Well-Known Member

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    Re: When did music become something that people expect to have but don't want to pay

    Her fantastic arse, mind.
     
  11. Con

    Conan Troutman Well-Known Member

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    Re: When did music become something that people expect to have but don't want to pay

    Another thing we disagree on.
     
  12. jedstar

    jedstar Well-Known Member

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    Re: When did music become something that people expect to have but don't want to pay

    I resent paying for music of the iTunes store these days, the odd time I have I've ended up losing it because I didn't understand their process on what you do if you have to wipe your hard drive or buy a new computer. Seems it isn't just as simple as redownloading.

    Before MP3s I'd happily go and pay £3 for a single (nearly all my pocket money) and a compilation (like NOW or summat) would cost close to £20 - I probably bought four of them a year. It seemed worth it at the time, these days if I want to listen to a song I can have it playing within moments for free via YouTube or Spotify.

    Why would anyone want to pay when on one hand the record companies are offering free access to it via legal channels (a lot of the YouTube music is legit and not just uploaded by random people infringing copyright and Spotify pretty much has every track that ever charted on it as well as the full albums of anyone who has ever charted) yet on the other hand they want you to pay a quid or so to download the track which still retains some inflexibility - like with iTunes for example you are restricted to playing it on Apple devices unless you faff about.

    My car stereo has got a USB slot so I tend to fill a USB memory stick up and stick that in, adding and removing tracks as I get new ones and get bored of others, works well for me but I'd have to mess around for half an hour to get an iTunes track to play off it because of the DRM - so by removing the DRM I am apparently breaking the law, and if I download a torrent I am breaking the law. The whole system is one big contradiction of itself.
     
  13. John Peachy

    John Peachy Well-Known Member

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    Re: When did music become something that people expect to have but don't want to pay

    I owned a record shop & lost my house over all this. In the end noone really cares about the small independents in any sphere, its only when the big shops started
    to go under that anyone started taking an interest. Same with book shops, local butchers, loadsa stuff. As well has downloads we had supermarkets selling
    CDs cheaper than we were buying in & town centre rates going through the roof.

    Anyway I've moved on now & have been running a DJ agency for last 6 years. Sadly it means its rare I can get down to the 'well on Saturdays, but at least I'm still in music.
     
  14. Dys

    Dyson Well-Known Member

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    Re: When did music become something that people expect to have but don't want to pay

    Smashed to bits.
     
  15. Con

    Conan Troutman Well-Known Member

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    Re: When did music become something that people expect to have but don't want to pay

    I used to love Casa Disco. It was excellent for independent metal albums. Sad day when it closed.

    I've never bought a CD in a supermarket and never will.
     
  16. Terry Nutkins

    Terry Nutkins Well-Known Member

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    Re: When did music become something that people expect to have but don't want to pay

     
  17. Dys

    Dyson Well-Known Member

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    Re: When did music become something that people expect to have but don't want to pay

    By the way - new record shop opening up on Summer Lane. Jim's records.

    https://www.facebook.com/JimsRecordsBarnsley

    Opening tomorrow - should be good.
     
  18. Ipp

    Ippon Member

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    Re: When did music become something that people expect to have but don't want to pay

    Which shop? I'm a proud supporter of Crash Records now ....... just bought the The XX - Coexist Deluxe LP (includes CD)
     
  19. John Peachy

    John Peachy Well-Known Member

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    Re: When did music become something that people expect to have but don't want to pay

    I used to be part of the Polar Bear chain in Grand Arcade & then we were called Soul Alley for a few years up to 2007 when we closed.
    Crash & Jumbo are good shops, but only exist on ticket sales.
    Gonna get the XX album misen - like what I've heard on 6 music this week.
     
  20. Ipp

    Ippon Member

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    Re: When did music become something that people expect to have but don't want to pay

    Ah vinyl is my only vice!!!! .... I did use to frequent Polar Bear as I worked for Syntegra on Albion Street from 98-03 ...... and spent more than I should there on Used/Promo CDs....... I got misen a nice joy Division Heart and Soul box set ......
    I'm on good terms with Ian at Crash ..... he always looks after me with the RSD stuff .... and I recently won a Jack White Blunderbuss White Label/White Vinyl Promo LP @ Crash .... worth a few bob IF I ever sold it ...
     

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