Most improved player this season?

Wiseman

In my opinion, certainly wasn't as poor as some made out. However, his performances deteriorated as 2012 progressed. I, and others, offered up Bobby Hassell as a viable alternative to a lad whose self confidence was disappearing before our very eyes. It certainly was not blind loyalty to a favoured player over another.
I would never set myself up as being more knowledgeable than other supporters, claim to have a greater insight of the game, insult the intelligence of fellow fans, or assume I speak with greater authority or credibility than anyone else. I can only offer my own views in as clear and balanced a manner as I possibly can, without resorting to condescension or name calling. Hopefully, I manage to do so more often than not.

 

Look, I accept that Wiseman is not tall enough to cope with a big forward in the air. He needs a big centre back by his side in such cases. He also needs support from full back and midfield so that the accuracy of the opposition's final pass is affected. However, he does have certain qualities that make him a good selection at centre back. Provided he is picked beside a tall centre back, he can read the game and use his pace to pick off passes before they reach the intended recipient. This sort of intelligent play goes un-noticed on the Ponte End, because they cannot see play develop from end on and consequently, tend to base their judgement on the effectiveness of a centre back on the number of last ditch tackles the defender makes. A team is made up of a balance of skills all over the park. In my view, Wiseman's balance of skills fit into the team in a number of different positions, full back, wing back and centre back. The fact that his qualities are now recognised more widely is not so much a function of Wiseman's improvement as it is of the teams general improvement, especially the balance of the team. The emergence of Kelvin Etuhu is responsible for much of that improvement in team balance.

 

Don't like cornflakes.

 

Surely the more argument or debate the better? It would be boring otherwise!

I happen to agree with him.

 

Re: Wiseman

From your comments, I assume you feel that my posts are arrogant. That accusation has been made before and it disappoints me. Furthermore, it stems from a misunderstanding of how I approach the process of watching the game. For most posters, watching BFC is 95% about emotional involvement and 5% about analysis. For me the figures are closer to 50:50. I enjoy the process of reading the game and analysing the deployment of tactics. Therefore, when I make a contribution on here, I do so from that basic position. I do not mean to be arrogant, and I hope that in real life I am not. I sincerely regret any offense that I might have caused.

However, I firmly believe that watching the game from behind the goal is not conducive to gaining a proper understanding of it. That is not greater insight, intelligence or authority. It is simply positioning, and it is why TV always shows games from the side. Finally, I am not aware that I have called anyone a name on here, though I have been called a few myself.

 

I'm not disagreeing with him.

Just seems like Red Rain has jumped out from behind his couch and decided to fight the world after years of being quite placid.

 

Most improved for me would be either Etuhu or Golbourne.

Huge respect to Scott Wiseman for the attitude he has shown. He has also improved a lot, but not as much as the other two imho.

Daggers has also improved a fair bit.

Jimmy McNulty always worried me last season and has done this. I just find him a bit calamitous and always capable of an error, which in this league can result in a goal quite easily.

 

It is true that I read more than I write as can be judged from the fact that I have less than 900 posts in 7 years. Just occasionally something will get to me and I will feel that I must respond, because not to do so allows an opinion to become a fact. In this case, the thing that rattled my cage was the opinion that the treatment of Wiseman by supporters in his first eighteen months of his contract, and particularly the first 4 months of this season, can be excused by the corporate agreement that everything is OK now because he has improved. The fact is that Wiseman was treated shabbily by a section of our fans. That treatment very nearly caused a good player to leave, and was certainly unhelpful for the team. It reminded me of the treatment of Danny Wilson during his first season as player/coach. Time proved them wrong and I hope time will do so again.

 

Completely agree red rain. Wiseman has been a great defender all season but the mistakes of others and the love for bobby have caused him to get undeserved hate.

For me wiseman is our best player defensively, yet he is also our fastest player making me wonder where he should play, CB or RB, his defensive qualities are, I feel somewhat wasted at RB, but his pace is wasted at CB. It's a tricky one.

Also agree with your point of looking at a game end on is bad, I absolutely hate sitting at the end, you can see very little of what actually goes on, that's also the reason that I don't attend as many away games as I'd like to.

 

You assume wrong

You put forward what you perceive as personal strengths. I simply did the same. Whether there's any accuracy to my views, it's up to others to conclude. I've always admitted to knowing little about football.

 

I'm not going to argue that a section of the fanbase made Wiseman a scapegoat for everything going wrong but I do think it would be remiss to think that he was playing well through that point, when quite clearly he wasn't and was costing us valuable goals as a result. In this case I think that its a bit of a vicious cycle and it all came to a head during the Blackburn game.

I haven't been the last few games due to Cricket commitments but I am glad that things seem to be going well for him, I really am. There is nothing better than seeing a person grow and meet their capability, I'm sure that's what we all want to see.

To answer BarnsleyReds point below, that Wiseman has been Barnsleys best defender, I think might be a step or too beyond the realms of reality. Crainie has been our standout performer all season, a Rolls Royce of a player. After him I think Goldbourne was quality, before getting injured and I think Fozzie, Bobby and Kennedy have all performed admirably in short stints. Wiseman has a lot to do yet to be classed as our best defender and it is up to him to continue his learning curve.

Confidence is key and he has shown to be fragile in the past. Lets see how he fares next season if we stay up or if he is still here.

 

Your prerogative.

 

I sit in the West Stand. And I saw him as our weakest player during the last couple of months under Keith Hill. Yes, the team as a whole was struggling, but Wiseman was more than culpable for many goals - often costing us points.

I didn't imagine that. It happened.

As for his qualities now being recognised, they always were, even in his dark days. But his mistakes were so regular and so blatant, that they were the talking point. Not his pace, or his reading of a situation, but his inability to jump (despite being 6 ft tall), and his habit of switching off.
You (and a few others in this thread) seem to be suggesting he's always played well, never been poor, never cost us goals - that's as bonkers as the conspiracy theories I apparently won't share...

And the Hassell issue you speak of is irrelevant. When I've suggested he should be playing, it's borne out of being a supporter who wants us to do well, not in some ridiculous vendetta against Scott.


I have seen a much improved Scott Wiseman since Flitcroft got the job. Just as I've seen an improved Dagnall, Etuhu, Cranie, Cywka, Harewood, RNL, Kennedy, Steele, Foster.... the whole squad!

Because the problem was removed on December 29th.

My opinion.

 

Treated shabbily how? Are you referring to the few morons who booed him against Blackburn (and McNulty btw)?

If so, then I choose to agree with club legend right back, Nicky Eaden, who at the time of the 'Wiseman gets booed/abuse' episode, suggested Scott grow a backbone. And that's coming from Nicky Eaden, who despite being comfortably the best right back we've ever had was given dogs abuse for years by morons at Oakwell.

Scott was offered the chance to go to Blackpool, turned down the reduced offer in salary, fought for his place here, and has since grown into a much improved player.

He must have took Nicky's advice.

I'm leaving this debate/argument right there. Because I've admitted that he's proved me and many others wrong recently, and he's not the first player to have done so, nor will he be the last.

And I merely joined this thread to put him forward as most improved player.

Kiss kiss,

Andrew. X

 

I had forgotten Nicky Eaden. Another good player chased out of the club by the vociferous minority and yet another reason to remind people that the best way to improve the players is positive encouragement rather than abuse.

 

Chased out of the club? Not how I remember it.

Great player though. Was watching a 96/97 highlights DVD the other day - amazing how many goals came from his crosses. Never quite understood the stick he got either, especially with him being a Barnsley lad.

 

Agree. My take re Wiseman.

When I first saw Wiseman in pre-season (Hill's 1st season) I liked the look of him, I really thought we'd found a little gem from League1. He had the pace of any footballer I've seen at Oakwell and he passed the ball really nicely. Then I spoke to a couple of people who I believe to have a good knowledge of football and they weren't so sure, they said he looked a little dodgy defensively and unsure on the ball. This was in complete contrast to my opinion I might add and then sure enough he was being picked quite regularly straight away and did well IMO.
Then, I did start to notice the mistakes creeping in to his game. Not being great in a tackle, switching off in the box, being caught out of position etc. He looked a little out of his depth quite honestly but it would have been harsh to judge because the team was performing so badly towards the end of last season, that you could have picked anyone out for a slating.
I think where we went wrong with him this season is down to a couple of reasons. 1). Throwing him in as a centre-half. You need time to adapt your game, just as you would with any change of position. 2). Playing him at centre-half alongside McNulty. I like Jim too tbh, he passes the ball really sweetly, has good ball control, plenty of height and has a good attitude (I'd have him as a squad payer, as back-up for CM, LB, CB). Again though, his positioning is questionable, nor is he quick or strong. Playing these two at centre half is a bit like having the blind leading the blind. 3). Making him captain of all things! He was far from being our best performer in the previous season, relatively inexperienced at centre-half and didn't look to have the confidence to lead a team (like say Shackell did).

Hill playing him in the Blackburn game was nothing short of a joke, he'd lost the plot by this stage quite frankly so I'll move on.

I think Wiseman has improved since the appointment of Flitcroft. It's not light and day, he's still the same player, but he looks a lot more solid and uses the best part of his game (his pace) to his advantage. I have absolutely no worries playing him as a centre-half these days, he looks to have adapted to the Championship and his last few performances have been consistent. I will point to a couple of exceptions here though. The Man City game he played RB, I was stood right behind him and he looked dodgy. His pace counted for almost nothing against City and I'd have much preferred to see Bobby or Delap play there that day but hindsight is a wonderful thing. The analysis of the Charlton goals doesn't look good on Wiseman either but he wasn't solely to blame and these 2 games aren't the most relevant to our season.
I think as well, like Foster before him, having the captaincy taken away was a big lift on the character and without the added pressure he performed much better. Playing alongside someone as good as Cranie is always going to be a big help. Cranes (IMO our best defender, even player) hasn't put a foot wrong since Flicker took over and he is a great example for Wisey to learn from, in fact their playing styles are almost identical now and they look a good partnership. Long may this continue.

Bobby. It's understandable why there was a clamour for him to return (I was one of them) - we were defensively awful (as we were pretty much everywhere on the pitch) but he's not the same player as Wiseman. They play the same position but as defenders they couldn't be more different. Wiseman is pace and exuberance, Bobby is calculated and sure footed. For e.g. I wouldn't be too confident with Wiseman at CM but with Bobby it's fine, he's a better footballer in terms of his control, his confidence on the ball, his ability to pick a pass and read the game. Similarly Bobby struggles more these days as a RB in comparison to Wiseman, especially with the amount of pacey wingers there are in this league.

On the whole, again, sacking Hill was the best thing we could do. The tactics were all wrong for our set of players.

I still think Etuhu is the most improved player though because he's gone from nothing (wasn't even getting a sniff) to everything! He'd be a fantastic addition to any team at this level.

(sorry this was so long, I just kept writing).

 

got to go back to a earlier post and say Cranie real class act now

 

Just realised that my point re Wiseman partnering McNulty isn't correct because they haven't done so too often (this season at least). If memory serves, Wiseman was given the captaincy because of McNulty's injury. The point still stands though that Cranie is a much better partner for him and brings out the best in him.

 

You two faced tw@t!!!!